Buffy the Vampire Slayer

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singsinthecar says:
(Tue May 1 23:56:42 2001 172.150.211.59): Fly-by!

the red hood: Yes, what are you saying? *g* Hey, I got to talk to ForeverFaith briefly earlier. Very cool. Oh, and I echo your crying, although no tears actually fell from my face; I held them back to save myself embarassment in front of my family.

singsinthecar
back to working on a certain project...no time for scrolling yet

Princess of darkness says:
(Tue May 1 23:55:50 2001 193.159.25.168): I can't wait till tonight. Its scary NIght. First Buffy and then Angel. We are just season 4 but with Faith when Faith go to LA to fight against ANgel. :) Can't wait! :D

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 23:53:18 2001 209.178.134.226): Kristen: Not attacked, just misunderstood. For a writer, I don't speak very well I guess, so I'm used to it. No harm. =)

hi-d says:
(Tue May 1 23:53:17 2001 202.138.134.162): i want angel back!!!! if that would be impossible, tv guesting is beter.

Kristen says:
(Tue May 1 23:47:27 2001 66.27.253.160): the red hood Not to put a total kabosh on your hopes but...~~Tim said it ain't true.~~. :-(

the red hood says:
(Tue May 1 23:46:18 2001 150.135.184.6): Yes!!! I have a brief respite from project/final type madness as my oral Japanese final exam is done! -- for better or for worse. (singsinthecar, what the hell am I saying???)

Did I see a ForeverFaith on the board??? You have e. Finally. :P

Spoilers/rumours for tonights eppies/future eppies
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*sniff*... no sign of Faith yet...so much for rumours that she might be back next week...unless i dare to continue to hope...(argh!) at least i finally got my hands on that Maxim (x3) late last week. Stupid traumatizing U of A bookstore.

Tara==*cry*
Joss==evil demon spawn
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End Spoilers

~the red hood
s-neopets-d
there's a paper I should be writing...and those finals..._{and that project...}

*scrollin'scrollin'scrollin'*

Kristen says:
(Tue May 1 23:43:14 2001 66.27.253.160): Cirrus I'm sorry if you felt like you were being attacked. It actually wasn't my intention. But that one line from your post was like a trigger to a thousand bad memories. *s*

DSP *random illicit gropes* Sorry, that ship has sailed. I'm thinking of becoming an asexuali. You know, specializing in appliances and plant life.

"I mean, how can you trust someone who can literally *bleep* themselves?"

DarkLady says:
(Tue May 1 23:38:56 2001 24.4.254.107): DSP! DSP! DSP! *waves* and *smootch*

Cirrus Kain I had a feeling that when Willow said "Hello, gay now?" to Anya it was more of a reminder that she had moved on from her Xander days (moved on a LOT) than a closing statement. I think Willow's sexuality is still in a state of flux. Then again, I think most people's sexuality is not nearly as fixed as they want to believe. this is going to lead to a discussion of "fluidity" and I'm gonna beat my head into a table...*g*

I have no idea if there is a generally accepted definition of what separates a homosexual from a bisexual person other than the rather obvious one (that a bisexual has had a sexual relationship and/or harbors sexual feelings for either gender).

SPOILERS FOR TONIGHT'S "BUFFY"
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the moment in this ep that really blew me away was the fight between Willow and Tara, because I've been wanting this issue to be raised for a while. If I were in Tara's place, I would feel the same way. How would I know that when things got rough, Willow wouldn't just decide "Ok enough of that" and move on? and possibly fall in love with another guy? That's got to be a terrifying prospect, more so than the usual being left fear because it includes something "other" than what you are. Bad enough to have your lover take off for another person and you're left wondering if you're lacking in your personality or mind or soul, but that situation would toss in insecurities about a lot of other stuff too.

Kudos to Rebecca Kirshner (and Joss) for keeping this relationship as real as possible...
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SPOILERS FOR TONIGHT'S "BUFFY"

Amberlynne howdy. I can see where the lack of differentiation (is that a word?) can be a problem, but that person didn't specify that they were upset about future spoilers. They were ranting about not including the ep titles. It just seemed ridiculous to me. But given the tempers flaring tonight, I rather think it's not that important.

DL
bedtime now

DSP says:
(Tue May 1 23:38:16 2001 208.59.247.8): Kristen You're my favorite bsexuali of all. *BIG WET LESBIAN SMOOCHIES* to try to woo you over to our side full-time... ;)

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 23:36:53 2001 209.178.134.226): Okay, I love DSP again.

Blackheart too.

DSP says:
(Tue May 1 23:34:36 2001 208.59.247.8): Cirrus *smoochies* I'm sorry if I sounded harsh in my post to you. And I really do sympathize with your personal experience with this stuff (trying not to be spoilery) but this topic can set me off. I may have jumped to conclusions with your post but that line in your post that I cited in mine sort of stuck out at me.

Really gone now.

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 23:32:50 2001 209.178.134.226): I'm being misunderstood again.

I'm also overposting like mad.

You'd think this would be enough of a hint and I would just shut my big yap.

You'd think...

AIM-CirrusKain

So not here says:
(Tue May 1 23:32:48 2001 63.39.4.13): Kristen - Engraved chrome toasters, remember. It makes the bsexuali even rarer.

*flit*

Moloch2002 says:
(Tue May 1 23:32:26 2001 64.12.102.169): Hello to all.

Blackheart says:
(Tue May 1 23:31:25 2001 131.183.15.58): CK is wise beyond her years. The Bronze works on me like the Songs on the Sirens.

Cirrus Kain You are, I suspect, quite correct. This wouldn't make it about sexuality. This would be a part of the larger subset I was talking about. Being human. I found the trick to being a hetro with gay friends is...yeah you don't understand their lifestyle...but it doesn't make them any less human. Cut me and do I not bleed?"

Now, off that subject, but not quite...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you get the same impression that I did? That neither girl had previous experience to guide them in this? Willow certainly wasn't portrayed as being adventurous enough to have experimented in that direction. And Tara had been under daddy's autocratic mysogynistic thumb since birth. Not much chance to experiment there. Which makes what they did, what they've built, pretty damned amazing. *g* For anyone. On either side of the "fence".

And this time I really do have to bail, because the piles of work here won't do themselves. No matter how much I tell them to.

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 23:31:20 2001 209.178.134.226): Bleh. Random dingo.

(Attach to previous)

Cirrus is also dating a bisexual whom she loves very much and who returns those feelings in full.

Kristen says:
(Tue May 1 23:30:30 2001 66.27.253.160): DSP *smoooch* 'Cuz, you know, you rock. And a bsexuali is a rare form of the bisexual. The kind that's only attracted to men with giant evil genius brains carrying chrome toasters. ;-)

Cirrus Kain I have to say, people end relationships all the time. I don't think that being attracted to both sexes makes me any more promiscuous or likely to "jump partners." But that is the stereotype. That all bisexuals are either the megaslut or the cowardly fence sitter. Neither are particularly enjoyable labels to be slapped with.

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 23:29:39 2001 209.178.134.226): Here I haven't seen DSP in years and all she does is chew me out. Sheesh. =P

And for the record, I was not stating that bisexuals hurt people, I stated that being left for a member of one's opposite sex hurts. A lot.

*sigh*

Cirrus has been left by someone because she was not the five billion guys whom her lover craved attention from.

Bygones.

DSP says:
(Tue May 1 23:28:22 2001 208.59.247.8): sigh

I do not know what a bsexuali is. And the last line should read "get over it." Not get it over.

Also apologies for not using spoiler space.

DSP says:
(Tue May 1 23:25:20 2001 208.59.247.8): Annoying Soapbox Drive By

Hi Cirrus. I agree with you that biphobia is a nasty secret of the lesbian communities. I have bi friends who have lamented the attitude certain lesbians have against them, namely that because they are bi they will run off with a man. But whenever you start a relationship with anyone, there's the risk of betrayal and abandonment for another lover. I get upset when I hear comments to the effect of, "Well, she's bsexuali so what if she runs off with a man?" I understand the sentiment behind it, but what irks me is the underlying and unfair stereotype of bisexuals as untrustworthy. So I take exception to your comment that "most of us have been hurt by one [a bisexual] or know we could be." As for the idea that maybe a woman will run off with a man to be more satisfied sexually, I think that's about our community's internalized homophobia and we need to get it over.

Thanks to Joss, Rebecca Kirshner, Aly , Amber, and the cast and crew for a wonderful episode.

*poof*

Princess of Darkness says:
(Tue May 1 23:24:46 2001 193.159.25.168): Princess of Darkness walks into the Bronze...

Good Evening

white wings says:
(Tue May 1 23:23:51 2001 63.39.4.13): Buffy is NOT ending, only moving to UPN

To Whom it Might Concern: I'm not here. I'm in bed. I'm a figment of your imagination.

Amberlynne - We've been barraged by homemade spoilers synthesized from a few TV guide comments and possible 'genuine' spoilers (as these things go), and things that Joss has already done. And they are being spread over the sites like an infection. It's not the first time, of course. I confess to being something of a spoiler-hound, but these things are essentially fanfic thinly disguised as real spoilers and speculation, and I'm getting so tired of it that I've quit looking for spoilers. Sheesh. Nothing to do about it, I suppose, but I just wanted to say that I am disgruntled as a therapeutic venting. And I saw what you said about moving, but I keep my walker close at hand.

Major Wiggins - Trying to avoid needing spoilers. Yes, I agree, but does Buffy have to be quite so S4? She does have a lot on her mind, granted. That was one of the things I liked watching in S1-S3, the way she managed to cope with stress. But this season, she doesn't have the outlet of things to slay. She has to deal like the rest of us do.

DarkLady - *giggle* at your spoiler. How long do you think they are planning to run Angel? *g*

Penlind - you still have our hopes and {{{{{{good vibes}}}}}}, and you are in pretty good hands, human or otherwise as you believe.

slayerdaddy - Oh well, it's a tone.

Addie - Restrictive covenants in a townhouse + home orientation make dish difficult, probably impossible. *sob* Hmm, digital cable is different from others? Must call. But I have friends in UPN areas, praise the Lord, and am developing a capacity to copy tapes.

Fancy Pants - Interesting thought about the different aspects that could be developed by the W/T relationship. Sadly, I must confess that the only relationship that ever really gripped me in this show and most others was B/A, but it won't hurt me to THINK about the others. *g* There'll be time enough to speak of the demons that inhabit your machine if you stick around.

It's hard to leave since I wasn't really here.

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 23:13:45 2001 209.178.134.226): In case Blackheart lied and lurked:

There is (and this is a personal-experience theory) a lot of resentment in the gay community against bisexual I think because most of us have been hurt by one or know we could be. As a heterosexual male, imagine what it would feel like to have a woman you were in love with leave you for another woman. Same thing here. It hurts you in the deepest way because "what they've got that you don't" is more obvious, and there's the nagging doubt that maybe you didn't satisfy them (not just sexually) all along. I think the fear and pain of that kind of hurt leads many gays and well as straights to dislike bisexuals.

Just an theory though. I can't even speak for myself half the time so... =P

Fancy Pants says:
(Tue May 1 23:09:01 2001 4.35.246.18): White Wings~

Thanks for the warning:) I suck at episode names but I promise to remember next time I prattle off! As for being on topic, I had a feeling that no one really wanted to hear my rants about Premiere and the evils that had possessed my machine! Have a smashing evening!

Just tossing in an observation about Willow and Tara's relationship. One of the reasons I dig on them is that it is another type of relationship to explore many of the issues that would not fit in others. Being in a same sex relationship has its own types of pitfalls and highs that does not come out in a hetero relationship. For me I see Willows evolution as gay pretty natural. I think it is hard not to compare T&W's relationship to W&O's. But in reality (ok as much as you can have on a tv show) they are like apples and oranges. Simular but completely different, which brings about more character development.

Fancy pants

Blackheart says:
(Tue May 1 23:08:03 2001 131.183.15.58): Back in for a second

Slayerdaddy Oh, I doubt that you'll find anyone this side of a complete moron that could find fault with the way the relationship was plotted and scripted. If Tara had been male, it still would have been well done. Very well done. The fact that it would work both ways equally well argues for Joss' skill...as well as that of Aly and Amber. But it still doesn't change the fact that...they are what I am not...and can never be. When I relate to them it must be within the larger subset of humanity. Much below that I develop "centipede" problems. For me, sexual love requires two sexes, not just two people. *shrug* I don't see my situation as right or wrong, it simply is.

Cirrus Kain You've just hit on something that has puzzled me for years. Understand me, I'm an unabashedly straight male who shared an apartment for a while with a gay female, and got to know her equally gay friends. And given all the c**p that gays have had to take from assorted bigots I was surprised to find that they had a fair dose of the same disease themselves when it came to bi-sexuals. "Wannabes" was the nicest label the used for them. More generally it was "fence sitting cowards". *shrug* I always found it odd that I could accept them in my home (male and female alike) if not my love life...but they could not tolerate the existence of a subset of their own community. Odd. Very odd.

Bigger fleas have little fleas, and so on, ad infitium....

really gone this time

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 23:07:30 2001 209.182.160.250): Okay, I'm gone. See y'all tomorrow...

Addie says:
(Tue May 1 23:07:05 2001 24.4.252.139): Quickie post - if you're rich and/or desparate, and don't get UPN, you can get it through most dish offers - check around. If digital cable is an option in your area, you might want to look into that too... if those aren't options, look at the bright side - you'll be able to watch s6 on FX in a few years! Sorry. :)

Addie
SlayerWeekly.com

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 23:00:43 2001 209.182.160.250): penlind � we're pulling and praying for Djoser. Go get your good news...

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 22:59:03 2001 209.182.160.250): white wings � in the words of an anonymous British cavalry officer, "I consider it my duty to lend a bit of tone to what would otherwise be a mere vulgar brawl..." Of course I can't help it if the tone I lend comes from Harpo Marx's taxi horn...

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 22:55:43 2001 209.240.220.240): DarkLady...Thanks. I'm still reeling...just breathe.

StG...You, my dear friend, are never priggish. I, on the other hand, have a big mouth and should sit with my bum on my hands. Bad Pagan. As for Clancy, I think he recognizes exactly what he found, and he's right. You are the best!

White Wings...Wonderful thoughts!

Well, the children are up and my worse nightmare begins. I feel like Dawn reaching for her mother's hand in the Body. Nothing to fear, all good news. I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills...wish me luck friends.

white wings says:
(Tue May 1 22:55:04 2001 63.39.4.13): Buffy is NOT ending, only moving to UPN

Emily - You are most welcome. It's not my faq, I'm just doing my bit in posting the link. A LOT of people have come by wondering.
I hope you get UPN. I can get it only on a tiny TV in one bedroom of my house with a 2" monitor, that can miraculously in good weather pull in the signal from 90 miles away, but if that's how I have to get it, that's what I will do. Good luck. We still don't know about Angel.

Fancy Pants - Nice first post, and on topic, too. Mine wasn't. *g* I suggest that you label which episodes your spoilers are for, and people will bless you, but they were labeled. I agree with you about Angel. And also ... sorry, I can't manage more spoiler warnings. I have to go to bed. But welcome.

slayerdaddy, Penlind - Really nice grim determination to rise above the morass. It might even work. Hope so. Night.

*flit*

amberlynne says:
(Tue May 1 22:51:40 2001 24.219.170.67): DarkLady: Oh, and hi and stuff. :)

amberlynne says:
(Tue May 1 22:50:55 2001 24.219.170.67): DarkLady: In Exasperated Bronzer's defense, I believe the problem was with people posting future/season finale spoilers without labeling them as such. I have a feeling they were trying to read about tonight's episode and ended up seeing some future spoilers instead. Very upsetting.

Kristen says:
(Tue May 1 22:50:29 2001 64.12.102.169): I really like Buffy, but I'm glad that it's going to fox. People w/o cable can actually see it!

laffin says:
(Tue May 1 22:50:21 2001 63.10.182.19): hrm...

*poof*

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 22:49:39 2001 209.182.160.250): blackheart _ that's a reasonable observation. On the other hand, I don't relate to Xander or Giles as sexual beings either (I mean okay, I run around my apartment in the tweed jacket, but that's just when I'm posting, it gets me in the moment, really...)

On the other hand, Tara and Willow clearly react to each other as characters in a sexual way and Amber and Aly portray that with a riveting magnetism, IMHO. More to the point, I can see the foundation of the relationship as reasonable in character and story terms. Remember that Tara confessed her feelings for Willow before she broke up with Oz, and that Willow didn't reciprocate until she had been forced by circumstances to evaluate her relationship with OZ as fruitless...

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 22:49:29 2001 209.178.134.226): Directed at no one

What made me think of this was the fact that some of us (myself included) refer to Willow as bisexual, and Willow refers to herself as gay. I'm wondering if that is on purpose. My girlfriend (a bisexual) once told me that she didn't really think of herself as bisexual, because she couldn't picture herself with anyone but me. Is Willow saying that along the same lines?

I just thought that might be sweet.

AIM-CirrusKain

DarkLady says:
(Tue May 1 22:47:23 2001 24.4.254.107): Hellos to Cirrus Kain, VABuffyFan and baaaaaannnnnnaaaaannnnnnaaaa!

Penlind given that your Cairo had me crying last Friday because she's so sweet and kind, I'm going to have to *bap* you for suggesting you're not a good mother. You're obviously in the Hall of Fame for moms. I am thinking of you and all your little ones every day.

Exasperated Bronzer I have no idea who you are, but you're scrolling on a Tuesday night and you're yelling at people for not stating which episode they're discussing? You've GOT to be kidding me.

blue balaclava I'm not sure what you're referring to but the Bronzer who coined the phrase "*poof*" was I believe Cate

ooh, Narrator was laying the smacketh down upon a bezoar! That was fun! :)

Ceer defensive much? If you scroll again, take note of the fact that the person who got jumped on earlier 1) used highly derogatory language and 2) wished for the death of a character. If it had said something about not liking that Gunn was black and done those same two things, we would've reacted the same.

As far as you're objections, I personally think you've already answered your own question. "If all that mattered was love of the spirit then there wouldn't be gays or straights..." Hmm, ya think you might be onto something there? Such as maybe the idea behind the whole story?

What makes you think love of the spirit is not all that matters here? Yes, love and attraction can be two different things, but more often than not, they share a lot of details. Willow is a highly cerebral person. She didn't fall in love with Oz because of his looks, she fell in love with him because he was funny and smart and, let's face it, devoted to her every whim. Willow's heart follows where her mind leads, even if that's not where she (or we) expected it to go. All that matters to Willow is that she fell in love with Tara. For me, I can relate to that. I can relate to falling for a person who I never really expected to fall for. I can relate to falling in love in general. And I think most people can.

Allyson I'm so with you there, babe. Rebecca ROCKED tonight!

SPOILERS FOR "ANGEL'
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I have just one thing to say (right now):

LORNE????
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SPOILERS FOR "ANGEL"

DL
"love when you crossed my mind
it became a garden of roses.
I wished I could cross your mind
to inhabit what inhabits me
The reason new roses keep being invented."

David Mello says:
(Tue May 1 22:46:23 2001 205.171.74.23): OK...since I have a temp job now stacking wood for a local sawmill, my spoiler will be much shorter that usual, but my reviews will be typed up by midnight tomorrow, Pacific Time.
I also have this fear about "Gilmore Girls" this week...as it looks like Emily's fondest wish will come true when Rory runs away from her mom..and will probably live with Evil Grandma now. YUK!!!
OK, SPOILER TIME
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The theme for Buffy is apparently people taking care of each other...Buffy for Dawn, Willow for Tara, the minions for Glory. This was also one great episode where the Slayerettes are now longer safe from harm...even if Buffy's there.
Dawn worries that her status has caused nothing but ruin for everyone. You wonder if she'll give herself up soon. By the way, I'm guessing that as Glory is about to grab Dawn, she turns into Dr. Ben. I think both sides wil be fighting it out soon.
It's a shock seeing Tara reduced to insanity, and seeing Willow as the Angry Wicca. Despite her rage, and new frightening powers, I don't think Buffy will need the Power of Three to save everyone. I think Willow may go dark for a while, then fall hard, and beg forgiveness. It's the Wiccan version of Angel(us).
As for what someone said about "I have a life, and it's Dawn's"..I guess that means Dawn will sacrifice her energy to revive Buffy AFTER the Big Bad's annual snuffing (Dawn will be the one to save the day this time...and die).
As for Angel, apparently Wesley isn't comfortable with being a leader, because he is used to Angel filling that role. It was great to learn more about ol'Krevlornswath Deathwok. With a
name like that. I'd change it, too. I'd like to know why the PTB want Angel to take on demons in another dimension, unless the writers couldn't think of a good apocalypse this year. Ending it in a "Wizard of Oz" ripoff doesn't look good.
Losing a friend is going to make Gunn a free agent, I think. Angel may have fewer helpers by nest season, I suspect.
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David Mello, Impaler General
Eternal Covenant of Slayer Supporters
Yuba City, CA

Major Wiggins says:
(Tue May 1 22:45:47 2001 24.180.82.98): SPOILER STUFF
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White Wings:

I think Buffy's inability to see what Willow was going to do has to do with the fact that Willow is changing in a profound way.

We're all used to seeing the cute, somewhat timid, fluffy-bunny Willow. That girl left town and there is a strong-willed woman where her own ideas about how to do things her way. Spike provided a more detached view of things.

Also amazing was Willow's attack on glory. The way she came in six-guns a-blazing. Levitating herself while summoning elemental energies. I wonder if they got the black contacts at a Babylon 5 garage sale.

If she keeps on getting more powerful, she could rate a spinoff of her own.

With regard to Spike, he is changing, also in a profound way. I think there is a unrequited love as the path to redemption thing going on. I think we'll get the answers in ep. 100

I loved the argument between Tara and Willow. Amazing how it started from almost nothing and went Defcon 5 over issues that must have been lurking for a while.

Great episode.

END SPOILERS.
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StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 22:44:59 2001 12.77.80.61): Penlind - I wasn't asleep yet. I'm glad you didn't take my words amiss. On reflection, I thought maybe they sounded priggish. And then I thought - Clancy doesn't knw what he's getting himself into. ;-)

StG

Blackheart says:
(Tue May 1 22:39:59 2001 131.183.15.58): Krick6 Don't beat Ceer up too badly. Most fans accept Willow and Tara, that's all. How many actually *like* the relationship is problematic at best. I've been wandering this board since the beginning, so I'd say my qualification as a fan is pretty good. And to be honest, I cannot relate to the character as a sexual being anymore. The only way I can relate to Will is as an androgynous creature. *shrug* I'm still fond of her character. But relate to her? Sorry, those circuits are out of service. Speaking frankly, if I wanted a honest portrayl of a gay female, I'd still be living with one. Still Joss did a good job within the limits he had to work with. As do Alyson and Amber. In the final analysis, what I like or don't like about it doesn't matter. PC has me outvoted. So I go with the flow. If androgyny is what it must be..so be it.

Not liking the turn of conversation (Let's hate the hetros because they can't relate to gays.)...so leaving.

EviLS I T says:
(Tue May 1 22:39:14 2001 64.12.101.168): I know i haven't been here in awhile but man *sob* much during tonights ep...i am still in torment

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 22:38:28 2001 209.240.220.240): Slayerdaddy...e showed up. Thanks!

SPOLERISH SPECULATION ON BUFFY/TOUGH LOVE
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The show, despite the name, has never been about Buffy, it's been about a cumulative group who compose the hero. Buffy is not Buffy without the sacred trinity that comprise her thought, her sense and her action...now who is who is the group? Giles, Willow, and Xander each take a part of Buffy's whole, and without them, she would have been deader then Kendra after the first month of slaying. That is why this hero succeeds. It is not her own life that she is running to save, Buffy doesn't hesitate, she doesn't show fear, she slays. She is running to save the irreplaceable part of herself, her loved ones, sub-Scoobies, Dawn and Spike included. Road trip! Grab the togas!
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SPOILERISH SPECULATION ON BUFFY/ TOUGH LOVE ABOVE

Narrator says:
(Tue May 1 22:36:48 2001 66.72.117.36): Perrin GoldenEyes -- I wasn't implying that you did specifically. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Ceer -- Just a suggestion - don't assume that folks will call you names just because they disagree with you. For the record, no, a lot of us do not throw out "bigot" or "homophobe". Those words are rarely used by most of us here. (Actually, they are most often used by those trying to bait folks here or who are trying to immunize their argument from any criticism.)

I would not call you a bigot or a homophobe for wishing that Oz and Willow were still together. I certainly don't consider myself a bigot or a homophobe for missing Oz. I miss Willow being with Oz. Heck, I even miss Willow mooning over Xander. I also miss Xander and Cordelia and I really wish they were back together. But the characters have changed over the years. Some more than others in this area. That's how real life is.

Some people learn very early that they are gay. Some don't learn until college or later. This show, for whatever reason, decided to tell the story of Willow learning in college that her sexuality is different than she may have thought it was in high school.

If these changes in the character mean that you like her less or identify with her less, well, OK. You do understand that there are others who identify with her more now, don't you? It would be nice if gays didn't need role models. But we aren't as a society fully accepting of gay relationships, are we? No. Gay discrimination, gay bashing, even gay murders, still happen. And right now you can count the gay relationships in TV dramas on one hand. So this is one of those relationships. How is that wrong?

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 22:35:32 2001 209.182.160.250): ceer � The thing that is losing me here is, if you can accept it so readily, what the heck are you complaining about? Oh, and by the way, one of my old army reserve component duties was as my unit's race relations and equal employment opportunity officer. I got me a letter from the gummint saying I'm an official not-a-bigot. Hadda take a course to get it. And you know what? You may say you're not a bigot, but you are acting in a bigoted fashion. The classic protest "I'm not a racist-homophobe-antiwhatever" is a key tell-phrase that is always followed by some variant of "but those people." You are trying to put the onus for your incomprehension on the thing you don't understand, and that is the mark of intolerance.

You're also ignoring three years plus of foreshadowing and gradual build-up on the part of some very good writers, but that's an observation from the published novelist side of my head, not the government-issue side...

Emily says:
(Tue May 1 22:34:32 2001 63.68.34.15): Thanks white wings...

Fancy Pants says:
(Tue May 1 22:34:02 2001 4.35.246.18): Ok this is really the first time I have posted so I am hoping you all do not mind me jumping right in:)
spoilers
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Buffy I thought was pretty swank, especially written by a new writer.
I am loving the relationship between Tara and Willow. I think that the arguement between them has been slowly brewing. Tara had a pretty understandable fear and I am jacked that it was looked at. The reactions on both side were pretty amazing. I have to admit it tossed me back a few years as I watched a few friends go through the same thing. Kudos for that peice of realism.
I liked how this led into Willows maturing powers. It is nice to see a badass willow that does not revolve around tight leather =).

I also really loved the chemestry between Buffy and Dawn. I have to admit the urgency in Buffy's actions really expressed the fear she had that Dawn would be taken away. This whole growing up thing for her sucks but I am impressed how it is being played out.
Which leads me to Buffy being slightly dense this episode, although she has allot going on so I can see why. Her self assuredness about Willow not going after Glory was surprising to me. I kept thinking that she should have seen how Willow was and made doubly sure Wills was not going to off. Then when Spike was sharing that she probably did go off, our fabulous slayer was a little slow on the uptake.
Which leads me to Spike and Dawn interaction. I loved it. I like the multi sides that we get to see in Spike it makes me grin. Michelle is a great actress, I was truly impressed.
So all in all I am loving it!

Just one side note about Angle. I was watching how he was over jovial tonight, it was a tad odd. But I got to thinking and it seems to me that this road to making amends is throwing the poor boy off. The small physical mishaps, mistaking of the scarf at the resteraunt not to mention the snafu of balking at the price of Cordy's appetizer and lastly the non-broody quality is a fabulous way to show that.
Oh yeah and I love the host even more after this episode.
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end of spoilers
Hopefully that was not to much of a first post but I am all excited and just had to share =)

fancy pants

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 22:33:35 2001 209.178.134.226): Ceer: I don't think you're a homophobe. I just think you're ignorant. As far as "shutting down one attraction" goes, ideally, when one enters into a monogamous relationship, that's what one is SUPPOSED to do. Shut down attractions to EVERYONE, male or female, but the person that one loves.

Willow does not love women. Willow loves Tara, and no one else but Tara.

All bisexuality means is that when she ends this relationship, she has the potential to be attracted to someone of either sex.

Who's to say she didn't have that all along? We never saw Willow have crushes; we saw her in love. First with Xander, then Oz. We never saw her potential for attraction. Therefore you can't just assume she was straight.

Okay, that was just bugging me and I had to say it.

Andrew "DDP" Niehaus says:
(Tue May 1 22:33:25 2001 205.188.199.27): I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but here I go anyway....
I've noticed a lot of comments, both possitive and negative, about the relationship between Willow and Tara. Soem people thingk it's great, others hate it imensly, and still others disagree with it and think that Oz should have stayed on, or that Willow shouldn't have gone 'gay'. Now, this si teh way I see it-
Willow and Oz broke up;
Willow met Tara;
Willow and Tara fell in love;
Willow shose Tara over Oz;
Willow and Tara are now a couple.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages- Willow and Tara shows that a loving, beautiful relationship between two members of the same sex can be a wonderful thing. They love each other, so just leave it at that.
-Ideas for nest season-

Buffy dies fighting Glory, and the next slay is called- Which is Tara, only she is out of her mind, so Willow conjures up Buffy's spirit to Guid Tara int he slaying thing. Then again, maybe not.

End Idea

-BTW- for the record- I KNEW Willow would go nuts. Kick @$$!
Have a Nice Day:)

gerom says:
(Tue May 1 22:32:03 2001 148.246.142.96): is some other network piking up the serias now that is going to be off air? big fan fore the past 5 years

Emily says:
(Tue May 1 22:29:35 2001 63.68.34.15): Did I hear right? Buffy was having the final episode in 3 weeks. I had no idea the show was ending. What is going on?

white wings says:
(Tue May 1 22:29:19 2001 63.39.4.13): That spoiler was supposed to be small. It's late.

white wings says:
(Tue May 1 22:27:32 2001 63.39.4.13): Buffy is NOT ending, only moving to UPN

Spoiler Tough Love
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Children raising children? Buffy's having to grow up faster than she wanted. And making a hash of it, too, at least at first.

I'm not qualified to speak about stunts, really. But this isn't the old (young?) Buffy. Perhaps we'll just say that she is outgrowing the need for physical violence and draw a veil over it. But when the opponent has to stand there while Buffy makes a carefully placed cartwheel to kick said opponent in the face ... even I can see that. I'll just have to mentally write "big fighty fight" over that and move on.

Willow as the black-eyed anger filled witch? Oh, Alyson did a beautiful job. I believed it. In fact, when I saw her scrabbling through the books I was waiting for D'Hoffryn's amulet to turn up and have Willow give him a chant. She might yet. Maybe not this year, but another. And it went the way of a lot of ill-planned violence. Very badly indeed for Willow, if not for Buffy. Willow has a lot of self-control to learn, although one can certainly sympathize with her anger and hatred.

Tara was wonderully portrayed by Amber. In the argument with Willow, in the scene on the bench with Glory, and her courage, and finally as the gentle but strange mad creature concentrating on a spoonful of food.

Giles the evil torturer? Get that twine. How sinister. Although he certainly might have been had it been necessary.

Dawn, in her rebellion, perfect. Reminds one of Board bezoars from schools. Her fears, her desire to help, spot on.

Spike. OK, when did he turn into a nice guy? Sulk. I don't want to trust him. Yet he appears to be trying with Dawn. And finally finding some inclusion in the group, without even a leer at Buffy. I think he's switching metaphors.

Buffy. Still dense about Willow. It takes Spike to explain Willow's motives to her. But he finally gets through to her. Buffy strokes Dawn's hair to give herself a sense of what she'd do if someone she loved were hurt. But I saw WML, B2, GD1&2, Harsh Light of Day, IWRY, when her love caused her such pain, and her pain gave her the strength to sweep all before her. Willow tried, but she chose hatred and evil means, and failed. Wonder where Buffy will go?

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End Spoiler Tough Love

*sigh* more catch up to do..scrolling

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 22:26:30 2001 209.182.160.250): penlind � any sign of that e yet?

white wings says:
(Tue May 1 22:26:07 2001 63.39.4.13): Buffy is NOT ending, only moving to UPN

Spoiler Belonging
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Hmm, that mention of tavern wenches had them looking askance at Angel. They'd rather not have him thinking of sex. *g* Why did he suddenly leap up after the woman in the shawl? I'm sure he was sincere. But perhaps hoping for some opportunity to change the subject from Wesley and decisions? He's still having a bit of trouble there. Ah, I remember. He's a bit peculiar. He's from France? Like the scene in STNG where Data goes back in time, and explains his peculiar complexion and language away because he's "from France". Another Pinochio (sp?) type. Perhaps coincidence, but I kind of hope not. *g* Wesley and Gunn do deliberately go back and include Angel in that bonding gesture.
Everyone is trying very very hard. When did Angel become that worried about money? Maybe he is getting involved in the daily business of running a business from his card table.

Yes, now we are seeing ~~talk-show David B~~ a bit of Liam (if he were ever sober) in the clowning around. But so incredibly awkward. Still very much an adolescent in this learning to be human. I still find so much humor jarring. I don't see how he can keep it up after being so long an introvert. But then, Angel is a stubbor tryer. Given a clue, and a formula, he's giving it his all. It's just - off. I hope he finds a balance. Or maybe that will take a few years.

Wesley with his father. Still being cut down. Still seeking for approval. Still hurting. But his father, for all his attempts, does not make him non-functional. Wesley may not feel strong, but he is.

Gunn. A Viking send-off for his friend, but so necessary. He knows the enemy. Not for him the old-Yeller movie ending of the corn crib. The book ending, with the gunshot. He deserved more time for this grief. But there wasn't time. Everything moved too fast. He was torn between two missions, both good, both with people he cared for.

Liked the male moment of silence as they think of Cordelia in a skimpy bikini. And the recovery, as they realize just how dangerous those thoughts could be for them. Or maybe it was respect. *g*

Cordelia is still growing up.

The Host has some awkward explaining to do. He is great. I liked the look on Angel's face when Lorn (Lorne? loved that tribute) described a land of good vs. evil, all fighting and no beauty, as he understood that he himself had never known much else, although he had fought on both sides.

Run out of thoughts.

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singsinthecar says:
(Tue May 1 22:25:42 2001 172.150.211.59): Before I go, I must say the following:

Rebecca Rand Kirshner is an excellent writer - you pulled on my emotions so much with tonight's episode!

Amber Benson and Alyson Hannigan rock!

ForeverFaith: Hey, all PBP pics are awesome! :) I'm looking forward to all of the new eps too - it's the time between the end of Season 5 and the start of Season 6 that I'm not going to fully enjoy. And yes, take care too! {{{hugs}}}

amberlynne: Yes, very interesting article. I actually used it for my term paper this semester. I'm off to work on homework, so good night! {{{Ambery hugs}}} for you!

And with that, I must be off. Homework is awaiting!

singsinthecar
*poof*

Gerom says:
(Tue May 1 22:24:59 2001 148.246.142.96): Pleas dont end the program

Moloch2002 says:
(Tue May 1 22:24:54 2001 64.12.101.173): Anyone here that I remember or that remember me? *sniffs*

Ceer says:
(Tue May 1 22:23:42 2001 216.114.220.223): Blue Balaclava- quick to jump on the "you're a homophobe" bandwagon aren't you. Anyone who doesn't say what you want must have hate it their heart, huh? I don't understand the attraction to the same sex. People are spouting love this and love that. Love and attraction can be two different things. If all that mattered was love of the spirit then there wouldn't be gays or straights. Too all of a sudden shut down one attraction and start up another is what I don't understand. Like I said I can accept it but to understand how I can find my own sex attractive is something I can't understand. Heck I can't even see how women find men attractive.
Okay let's hear it now- I'm a homophobe, I'm close minded, I'm the guy who beats up gays. Let's get that stereotyping ball a rollin'

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 22:23:29 2001 209.182.160.250): THINGS PARTAKING OF THE SPOIL

LA

DEE

DA

Hmmm... I just can't see Spike bobbing around in the ark, tho � or is that Giles' job? *g* The other thing that worries me is that it turns most of the rest of the cast into glorified horse-holders and spear-carriers after years of development. Whence Giles in this setup? Xander? Spike? Anya, Willow, Tara? Surely they have some other function than to punctuate author's messages with tragic deaths; this isn't first-season Star Trek...

DA

DEE

LA

END THINGS PARTAKING OF THE SPOIL

Krick6 says:
(Tue May 1 22:22:56 2001 172.169.60.205): CEER
I'm not sorry you can't relate to Willow anymore. Kudos to Joss for putting you in the position that I and every other Gay and Lesbian are in when we are presented with 99.99% of the relationships portrayed in any and all forms of media. However, I liked Willow & Oz as well. Their relationship was beautiful, sensitive, and caring. I think we all would want to be in a relationship with someone like Oz. He was completely devoted to Willow.
However Seth chose to leave. This created an opportunity to carefully introduce an honest portrayal of a lesbian relationship into the show and our living rooms. The relationship certainly was created overnite. All of season 4 was a slow intro kind of how relationships develop in real life. Joss never went for the cheap shot. The kiss was a natural expression of comfort in during a major grieving event. Not once has the Willow/Tara relationship been hyped in any weekly promos. Kudos again to Joss and the WB. So again I am sorry if you can't relate but maybe it will help you to empathize with human beings who are diffent than you are.

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 22:22:48 2001 209.240.220.240): StG...We do agree, I'm just teasing. You stated it beautifully and I was making a weak attempt to make you laugh. Usually you kick me under the table for that kind of thing! You are absolutely right in this day and age when personal value and sexuality are blurring lines. We need to redefine our stands on what we feel and what we need, and hopefully end up in a place where physical gratification doesn't come cheaply. With the diseases that are so prevelant, and the loss of selfworth from passing dalliances, I agree that it should wait for real commitment. But I hurt for my friends who have that kind of commitment and no legal acknowledgement of it. Until that happens, I'll keep praying for all lovers.

indiglo says:
(Tue May 1 22:22:42 2001 24.161.186.37): Spoliers spoilers.....I forgot the spoilers...doh..sorry..

amberlynne says:
(Tue May 1 22:22:17 2001 24.219.170.67): singsinthecar: Sounds like an interesting article! And I agree that love should definitely be cherished in whatever form it comes to us.

Ceer: If I remember correctly, Oz cheated on Willow and then his werewolf self viscously killed the one he cheated with. He left because he could not control that part of himself and it frightened him. It didn�t �just end�. And I also recall that Oz made no attempt to contact her while he was gone. She had to move on. As for her �gay now� comments, I think she says lines like that because the writers want to make it clear that her relationship with Tara is real and not just some phase, as many anti-gay �fans� have tried to call it. I have no problem with the fact that you identified with Willow more when she was straight and you enjoyed her character more because of that. (Try to step back for a moment and think what it would be like to have very few positive role models on television that represented what you considered normal.) I also respect your right to have your opinions. However, the person we are referring to used derogatory language and was insulting. That is not something we are just going to accept without comment.

Cashmere: We will have to work on that. *g* Good night!

VaBuffyFan: Just speaking my mind, my friend. ;)

An Emmy for Buffy
A Chance for Amber
The NEW NickBrendon.com
A CD for Chris Beck? E-Mail Fox Music!
The NEW Fury�s Fanatics at www.DavidFury.net
Buffy�s Move to UPN FAQ

proper spoiler warning suggestions/instructions

Indiglo says:
(Tue May 1 22:21:28 2001 24.161.186.37): raptamama: Regarding the bird-are-singing, bunnies-are-hopping Angel, I felt that weirdness too. But it also, sort of, reminded me of his Angelus days in a (sinister "here kitty kitty..") way....

Ginger says:
(Tue May 1 22:21:10 2001 24.4.254.76): No way on the Cordi / Angel thing. Ewww. That is like falling for your brother. Yuuck. Besides Buffy would kick his crazy little buns. Besides what about Kate? Cordi is great but still not a big Buffy fan and still so very materialistic. Doesn't work for me. Maybe with Gunn.

Hammer says:
(Tue May 1 22:21:04 2001 24.27.230.103): Oh never mind, scroll answers all.

Hammer says:
(Tue May 1 22:19:55 2001 24.27.230.103): What network is picking up Buffy?

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 22:18:11 2001 209.182.160.250): CAN'T GET UPN?

US Viewers �If you do not receive UPN in your area, e-mail me. I need your city, state and the call-signs of your local TV stations (Non-WB). Two reasons: I'm looking into setting up a video-lending circuit for Bronzers who can't get the UPN eps and it will provide info we can pass onto Fox and UPN (I'm sure they know which stations aren't theirs; I'm trying to give them a sense of where there is an active fan base in place to put local pressure on the stations to carry the show).

blue balaclava says:
(Tue May 1 22:17:24 2001 12.86.2.182): -- and, to end my quota -- would Willow have to prove her bisexuality by having an explicit scene, for the men to watch?

Sorry -- Xander had that dream last year, and it was silly.
Salacious, but silly.

The only person to which anyone has to prove sexuality to is a lover. And even that demand for proof has its drawbacks, as we saw tonight.

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 22:15:44 2001 209.178.134.226): Brandy: Nee-bras-kah? *giggle* Say, do you have any messengers? I think I'm overposting and have been for awhile. =)

maryloye says:
(Tue May 1 22:15:41 2001 24.29.203.196): Good news. Anthony has a new BBC comedy series lined up. Read about it in the Guardian.

blue balaclava says:
(Tue May 1 22:13:58 2001 12.86.2.182): You know Mr. DeKnight is in charge of the *poofing* around here....are we violating copyright?

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 22:13:46 2001 209.240.220.240): Slayerdaddy...

SPOILERSIH SPECULATION ON BUFFY/TOUGH LOVE
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That is true, he does, that's why he is so interesting, but Enkidu died, starting the run for immortality (cheating death) and finally the return for the final/transitive battle. Nope, Joyce is Enkidu. At first I thought the same thing, huh, unusual choice in Joyce, because Buffy is closer in many ways to the Scoobies. But once you begin to think about it, it does make sense. Enkidu was the person who grounded Gilgamesh, son of the gods, divine hero. Gilgamesh had become so bored with being perfect and uncontested that he began killing his citizens for fun. Enkidu, the wild man, the hairy boy, represents man's primal urge...survival. He is man as he first was, uncivilized, untamed, action. Meeting Enkidu gives Gilgamesh his calling. Enkidu is Gilgamesh's First Slayer. When he is gone, Gilgamesh has to redefine his purpose and support.
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SPOILERISH SPECULATION ON BUFFY/TOUGH LOVE

Irene Adler says:
(Tue May 1 22:12:00 2001 63.21.224.226): *poof*

blue balaclava says:
(Tue May 1 22:11:43 2001 12.86.2.182): Ceer: seems like you've taken care of all the narrow thinking, your own self.

People come out, and you no longer understand their thinking.

Not just who they love, or how they love.

All their thinking.

Would a queer woman deciding to marry a male become incomprehensible to you, too? Or are the transitions people make about who they love just that difficult to comprehend?

ForeverFaith says:
(Tue May 1 22:08:23 2001 209.204.154.239): Singsinthecar---lol, omg that's a horrid horrid pic of me!!! Take it off the page, I command you!! (you can keep it on if you want:).
And that's right, I had Steven's name on the tip of my tongue I swear! Well all I have to say is that i'm really looking forward to that ep written and directing by Joss...I have a feeling it's going to be awesome. Of course the bad news being it's the end of the season and we'll have to wait 3 more months for a new one :(.
Ok I'm gonna go before I get carried away and post over my limit. So take care you and hope to see you soon!! *hugs*

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 22:08:21 2001 12.77.80.90): Goodnight, Penlind - Whoever can get us news, please try. We really care about you and Djo. And we don't have to agree about sex. That's okay.

StG

Perrin GoldenEyes says:
(Tue May 1 22:07:16 2001 209.240.220.151): StGermaine: Well, you hold what you've got. And i'll hold what i've got. You can believe whatever you want to believe. It doesn't make it true. But if it makes you happy to believe it, be my guest.

silly says:
(Tue May 1 22:07:12 2001 209.244.74.173): Is this the last season of Buffy??
Cuz I heard in a trailer that a it would be a couple more episodes before the series finale...

Ceer says:
(Tue May 1 22:07:07 2001 216.114.220.223): Why I don't like the Tara/Willow relationship. Save the "you're a bigot" until you've read what I've said. Quite frankly it comes down this- She was introduced as a straight person. For three years I felt her love. I saw her attractions. I could identify with her. I understood where she came from. Then I lost her. She switched teams. Yes, it was hinted at in some episodes. I even commented to a friend long before she flipped that she was "going lesbian" (I don't know how else to put it). Heck, if she went bisexual I could buy it. But as she put it in the troll episode to Anya "I'm gay now". Everything that she was, was no longer. I can't understand her way of thinking. I can accept it, yes. Understand it, no. A lot of you like to throw out the homophobe and bigot words. Maybe the other side just like her better when she was straight because it was part of what they liked about her. I read that the Willow/Tara is held up to gays as a positive example. People love their relationship because they love each other. People also loved the Oz/Willow relationship because they loved each other. Then it just went *poof*. Now if someone wants it to *poof* back the other way you call them names. Okay you can start calling me names now.

Cashmere says:
(Tue May 1 22:06:37 2001 24.95.89.186): As much as I'd love to stay, I must sleep...

*yawn*

Nighty night to Amberlynne, laffin, Penlind, et. al.

Insane for Kane #69--yeah, that's me!
DeKnight Rider #44

Brandy says:
(Tue May 1 22:06:10 2001 63.172.254.61): Heh... yes. I'm tempted to move though. By the season premiere. :P I live in Nebraska. Like by Wyoming.

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 22:05:46 2001 209.240.220.240): OK, all wrapped up in myths and missed the latest arguement. Smile everybody. Life's too darn short to be angry when we all basically agree on this one. Although, St. Germain, as a non-Catholic I say the more sex the better...what piece of paper? Sorry, dirty old woman broke in there. I will get word to you, but He is probably out of here again. He was informed that he would probably be back in Belgium again in the next day or so. I will make sure he e's you though, I promise. He didn't come back at all. Hope everything is going well.

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 22:04:57 2001 209.178.134.226): Brandy: Wait, you ARE in the States right? The hell...

AIM-CirrusKain

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 22:03:30 2001 209.182.160.250): Penlind �

THINGS PARTAKING OF THE SPOIL

LA

DEE

DA

Hmmm... I dunno... Spike's always been the one who screwed with the minds, speaking unwelcome truths even if it is for his own advantage most of the time... and I think Buffy's real flight hasn't begun yet; next ep seems to be the Knights of Byzantium again...

BTW, peeved much over the cheatin' fake Giles-is-dying shot?

DA

DEE

LA

END THINGS PARTAKING OF THE SPOIL

Brandy says:
(Tue May 1 22:03:20 2001 63.172.254.61): Yeah. It'd be me calling them. And me. And me. And me. And me. They won't even give us VH1 or MTV. :P

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 22:01:46 2001 209.178.134.226): Brandy: Then call them every 5 minutes! If you're not willing to do a little thing like that, what kind of a Buffy fan are you? *grin* j/k

raptamama says:
(Tue May 1 22:01:13 2001 209.144.29.58): Hi Bronzers!
Spoilerish comments:
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Always good to see a little of Angel's humor come through. But the over the top lighthearted Angel is just too weird. I like him a bit more dark and broody, that is who he is.

Spike and the Host were great in these eps. Giles' quiet strength was impressive as usual.

Buffy is not dumb, stop making her out to be---like in the conversation with the prof.

Very odd with Buffy facing the biggest threat of death since the Master that Angel is not going to Sunnydale to "protect" her. His reasons for going before were almost inconsequential in comparison.
!
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Spoilerish comments

Dave says:
(Tue May 1 22:00:52 2001 128.101.30.135): Spoilers...in...
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kay, next thought I'm having...tonight's ep we've got Willow emerging as a powerful witch who's dabbling in the dark arts.

It's kind of interesting, actually, because I hadn't thought of Willow has having the kind of instantaneous magic that she was displaying tonight...she seemed to be more into spells and enchantments.

I've got to wonder how the healing of Tara will be accomplished...I'm seeing Willow hitting the books heavy and kind of losing some contact with the rest of the gang in her obsession for some kind of healing. This might be a chance for her to go dark, but I don't know about that...there seems to be this kind of innocence about her that would act as a shield without her even thinking about it.

Another thought...if Glory is defeated, would that have some effect on the damage she did to Tara's mind? The kind of thing she did to Tara would seem to be something that has to be maintained if I'm reading it right....that was a fairly involved torture. I'm impressed with the villain who thinks of doing that kind of thing.

Spoilers out in...
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Brandy says:
(Tue May 1 22:00:28 2001 63.172.254.61): This is totally going to bite. (sorry about the pun :P) We do not get UPN and I doubt our cable company will pick it up unless I call them every day for the next 5 months. I live in a pretty rural part of the states. :( *sad*

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 22:00:17 2001 12.77.80.90): Perrin Goldeneyes - To me it shows that you are just as hateful as he is, perhaps worse. To wish someone dead is not a nice thing, no matter who they are or what they believe. And yep, that's bad.

StG

singsinthecar says:
(Tue May 1 21:59:12 2001 172.150.211.59): amberlynne: I completely understand you about the "'norm' that has been shoved down our throats by narrow-minded people." In my women's studies class this semester, we read an article called "Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence" by Adrienne Rich. It basically said that there are forces in society that enforce heterosexuality as the norm. As for love, yes, the sex of two people who love each other is irrelevant; it is so rare to find - I have yet to find it!

ForeverFaith: I've been okay - my semester finals are next week, then I'm free until the fall! How are you? As for the writers, yes, both eps by Rebecca Rand Kirshner were great. They both had excellent Willow/Tara stuff. Tonight's ep affected me so much emotionally. The other new writer is Steve DeKnight. Oh, have you seen my PBP 2001 Pics yet? You're in a picture...

singsinthecar

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 21:57:16 2001 209.240.220.240): Slayerdaddy.....

SPOILERISH SPECULATION ON BUFFY/TOUGH LOVE
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Heavens no! I enjoy the vampire way too much. Enkidu would be Joyce, in the sense that Joyce grounded Buffy and dies, sending the Hero into a ressurection/transformation. The Hero calls into question everything that they have every believed in...if they can't really defeat Death, then why? What is it all for? If I can't save "them", then I'll save myself (In Buffy's case, the people that she loves are her life...without them, she is nothing). Gilgamesh travels to the ends of the earth to find immortality...He runs to cheat death. The blonde is going on a road trip with her nearest and dearest to try and save them, but like Gilgamesh, will not be able to outrun death. We are mortal, and we all die. Now the hero can face death and battle it, that is their only chance.
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SPOILERSIH SPECULATION ON BUFFY/TOUGH LOVE AND END OF SEASON 5 ABOVE

Perrin GoldenEyes says:
(Tue May 1 21:55:46 2001 209.240.220.151): Narrator: I did not threaten anyone, i just returned his complement that Tara and Willow should die.

St Germain: Let me get this straight. Because i wished the guy the same fate that he wished on Tara and Willow i'm worse, because he's *real* and they're just characters. And that i'm quote: "as bad as those who beat up gays."

Let me just say that that's laughable. First, if he would wish death on a fictional person simply because they're gay then he would wish it on a real person. Second, if you think i'm as bad as a punk on the street because i said it. Well. Tough.

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 21:55:21 2001 209.182.160.250): THINGS PARTAKING OF THE SPOIL

LA

DEE

DA

Oh, no, Cordy is trapped in the savage world of Griffit'pak, where she meets the denizens of a Sam Raimi Australian barbarian show...

(and yes, I'm old, but I'm not going to make any John Norman or "Gor"jokes...)

DA

DEE

LA

END THINGS PARTAKING OF THE SPOIL

laffin says:
(Tue May 1 21:55:16 2001 63.10.182.19): Cashmere - yup still here! :)

Spoilery
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Spoilers

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 21:54:58 2001 12.77.80.90): Penlind - I'm off to bed soon. Please let us know in some way what the doctors say, if you're not able to be in touch. Maybe Clancy can write and keep me updated. My love to all there.

{{{hugs and prayers and golden dreams}}}

StG

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 21:51:23 2001 172.146.173.153): StGermain - : - ) Thank you! You are a true friend.{{{Hugs}}} back!

Gone for the evening!

VBF

Cashmere says:
(Tue May 1 21:51:23 2001 24.95.89.186): someone want to grab that tag for me????

xandman says:
(Tue May 1 21:51:20 2001 64.12.101.181): I'm back

I scrolled to check, did anyone know if the Writers went on Strike?

Irene Adler says:
(Tue May 1 21:50:12 2001 63.21.224.226): Hiya Penlind, Amberlynne, St. Germain, Cirrus Kain, white wings, Narrator.

Saw the bezoarish comment. Disinfection anyone?

Irene, Priestess of the bronze and Keeper of the Spirit of the bronze Flame mutters a few sacred words and tosses a majic packet on the fire. The refreshing smell of lilac and rose fills the room.

Spoilerish "Angel"
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Hey! Klingons!
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end spoilerish "Angel" comment

Cashmere says:
(Tue May 1 21:50:09 2001 24.95.89.186): Amberlynne Sure, Honey, Sergei's yours just as soon as I get me Tony Amonte! what is it with me and guys who bleach their hair???

Penlind

spoilery speculative talk

I think the idea of family is Joss' main theme running through this season--looks like for Angel as well as Buffy. They've definitely got the writers Kudos to Rebecca, tonight btw exploring the complexities of familial relationships, whew...that being said...I need to go call my mum!

also, love Spike's new nickname for Dawn!

More spoilery stuff above

Hey, laffin you still lurkin'?

Marz says:
(Tue May 1 21:49:43 2001 152.163.205.56): When am I going to see Faith again? I miss her already. I think we need another girl on the group, Cordelia is being treated a baby too much I feel sorry for her. I think she needs a break (hehehe).

banana says:
(Tue May 1 21:48:35 2001 63.28.252.118): just a de-lurk before I'm off to sleep...

RSO Hollyn!!!

SPOILERS for Tough Love and Belonging

I realize, a lot of this has been said already, but oh well...

I thought Buffy was a little over board playing mommy, but I think it's about her truly being scared for Dawn and still dealing with her mother's death. She knows she's the head of the house now and that's serious.

Willow and Tara's fight- I didn't understand what the deal was at first. Not until Tara voiced her fear about loosing Willow did it start to get to me. Still the reasons leading up to it seemed kinda lame. Like they were just fighting over nothing to build it up.

Tara getting her brain sucked was so horrible! I got teary eyed seeing her in the hospital all crazy like. *sniff* Major KUDOS to Amber Benson. Her perfomance was excellent.

Yay Spike. I liked the scene with him and Dawnie and later Buffy.

I don't know how I feel about this whole other dimension deal on ANGEL. I'll try and have faith that the writers will make good out of it.

The Host has a name!! ;) Great acting by Andy tonight.

Wesley seems to be slipping back into his old less confident ways. I think the talk with his father brought out his insecurities.

It was great to see some serious character stuff for Gunn, but it was just like a side story completely unrelated to the rest of the eppy happenings. Maybe it'll be tied in better next week.

LOVE the big bro/sis thing with Cordy/Angel! I like it when he goes all protective on her.

Angel being wacky and goofy and knowing about Bonanza is great. I really really love that side of him, but I have to agree that it's slightly out of character. I think I would have understood it more had he not just recently been at the lowest point in his unlife. Maybe it's his epiphany that's changed his view on life and made him less broody... I don't know. Maybe the writers will explain his new light hearted mood before the season ends...

END SPOILERS!!!!!

nigth all!
banana

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 21:48:24 2001 12.77.80.90): VaBuffyFan - {{{hugs}}} Thank you, my friend.

StG

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 21:47:29 2001 209.182.160.250): THINGS PARTAKING OF THE TOUGH LOVE OH THE HECK WITH IT SPOIL

LA

DEE

DA

penlind � So, Spike as Enkidu?

DA

DEE

LA

END THINGS PARTAKING OF THE SPOIL

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 21:46:01 2001 209.178.134.226): Marz: Nah. Angel will realize he can't win and he and Wesley will skip and frolick down the beach happily ever after (at night of course). =P

Cirrus Kain imagines Angel frolicking, laughs so hard she has a heart attack, and dies

I hate it when that happens...

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 21:44:39 2001 172.146.173.153): StG - Just reread my the post you originally commented on...I was referring to DweeDum's comments about lesbos, not your comments on sex inside/outside marriage. You've never said anything to anyone that didn't deserve it. :-) And I am most definitely not offended by yours. :-)

Amberlynne - You're my hero. :-) I would spell heroine, but I am not sure I am spelling it right. :-)

VBF

Shoes on...out to the store...

pippin says:
(Tue May 1 21:44:33 2001 209.161.237.143): emerging from long-time lurkage...
Slayerdaddy "large women in sensible sandals"... LOL snerk

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I'm really starting to hate Glory, and I haven't felt that way about a fictional character on the tube for a looong time.

I also think the Tara/Willow relationship is one of the sweetest I've seen in a long time; it's nice to see two people caring like that.

Good work, Joss et al!

Loved the Angel "Here, kitty kitty..." woke my two kitties up - they thought someone was calling them (no kidding)
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back to lurking

Marz says:
(Tue May 1 21:44:10 2001 152.163.205.56): Cirrus Kain,
Do I smell a triangle? Gunn/Cordelia/Angel?

ForeverFaith says:
(Tue May 1 21:41:06 2001 209.204.154.239): singsinthecar--hey you! Yeah it's been awhile! how have you been? And yeah I think she did write that ep too..both really good eps in my opinion. I'm starting to get hooked to this new girl :). Do you know the name of the other new writer?

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 21:40:40 2001 209.178.134.226): Dave: I don't think that Angel is the only one who notices Cordelia. Recently Gunn has been showing a lot of concern when it comes to her.

Personally, I'd like to see something develop between them, but that's just my opinion. Cordelia/Angel would be interesting too.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS IN MY DREAMS

Mmmm.... Cordelia/Faith....

SO YEAH.

Marz says:
(Tue May 1 21:40:25 2001 152.163.205.56): Dave...

You're not the only one who's noticing this. Angel seems more concern to Cordelia now than before. I don't have any protest if in the future they have a relationship, but I'm still a Buffy/Angel fan.

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 21:39:59 2001 209.240.220.240): SPOILERISH SPECULATION ABOUT ANGEL/INTERVENTION
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I feel like Cai on this one, but I loved how it was all about family. Wesley calling home, and the pain in that relationship, the Host and his "couldn't leave that berg behind fast enough" ramblings", Gunn and his vampire hunting group. Perhaps the most touching was the fact that Cordy and Angel acted as each other's "family" in this episode, as each tried to find a way to relate after a devestating season of change. Freshman students often come back to classes after their first holiday back home with the same "I knew them all of my life, but everything is different now" looks on their faces. It was a very touching show.
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SPOILERISH SPECULATION ON ANGEL/INTERVENTION ABOVE

Question says:
(Tue May 1 21:39:34 2001 216.76.187.247): Possible slight spoilers....
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Dave I thought so too! They have been gettin an awful lot of screen time together.

Marz says:
(Tue May 1 21:37:22 2001 152.163.205.56): How come Angel doesn't have his own site yet?

Dave (Yep, that's it, just Dave) says:
(Tue May 1 21:36:24 2001 128.101.30.135): Possible slight spoilers....
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So, just out of curiosity, am I the only one who's seeing something developing between Angel and Cordelia and just waiting for it to pop?

Cordelia doesn't seem to be seeing any guys outside of work, and of the three guys she has contact with on a regular basis, Angel seems to be the only one that takes any notice of her.

He's concerned about her welfare, doing thoughtful things like bringing her food/clothing, and I've been noticing that when a threat appears she's the first person he jumps in front of (A la tonight). That kind of protectiveness he displays (Especially tonight) is anything but brotherly IMHO.

Not sure how much is going the other way from Cordelia, but I seem to remember her commenting about how he should smile more often a couple of episodes back.

So, any thoughts, or am I just hallucinating here? (Please don't hurt me)

krick6 says:
(Tue May 1 21:35:24 2001 172.169.60.205): Cirrus Kane
I too was having a deja vu feeling during the whole Tara/Willow scene tonite. Rebecca did an excellent job of capturing the whole vibe.

amberlynne says:
(Tue May 1 21:35:11 2001 24.219.170.67): singsinthecar: Well, I know of what I speak. I think love is so rare that we shouldn�t dismiss it just because it doesn�t fit a �norm� that has been shoved down our throats by narrow-minded people.

Penlind: Amen. ;) Now I know where Cairo gets her wonderful views on life.

Cashmere: Ummm�get me a date with Sergei Federov? ;)

Narrator: Sweet dreams, funny lawyer! ;)

Irene: Good eve! Yay for you!

Dwee Dum: What you obviously don�t realize is that these characters of which you speak are very important role models for many people in the gay community. They are proud of Willow and Tara�s relationship because it is presented normally and WITHOUT hype. So when you attacked them, you attacked the people that relate to them. As a matter of fact, I have never been in love with a woman but I don�t discount the possibility. So basically, my feelings are invalid and crap because the rest of the world couldn�t tell I might want to be with a woman and most of my crushes have been on men? If you can�t understand how that would be upsetting, I feel sorry for you. I cannot fathom that you thought you could come in here and write what you did without upsetting people. If you did, I think maybe you need to take some lessons on communicating with others.

An Emmy for Buffy
A Chance for Amber
The NEW NickBrendon.com
A CD for Chris Beck? E-Mail Fox Music!
The NEW Fury�s Fanatics at www.DavidFury.net
Buffy�s Move to UPN FAQ

singsinthecar says:
(Tue May 1 21:34:20 2001 172.138.96.13): ForeverFaith: Hey! I haven't seen you since the PBP this year! And I agree with you about Rebecca Rand Kirshner; she is excellent! She also wrote "Listening to Fear," right?

singsinthecar

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 21:34:04 2001 172.146.173.153): StGermain - Absolutely not! You have never said one thing I thought was offensive...your comments have always been extremely insightful and right to the point, unlike me, who tends to ramble from lack of sleep. I am most emphatically not offended at all. :-) I believe everyone is entitled to their beliefs. As for what I think about sex inside or outside of marriage, believe it or not, I will say that sex is a wonderful and beautiful thing and something I am not embarrassed about. I just won't have a conversation about the particulars on the board. :-) Oh, and I am Catholic too. :-) Imagine all the guilt! Actually, I am guilt-free. :-)

VBF...on the way to the grocery store...I might check back in when I get back. :-)

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 21:33:53 2001 209.182.160.250): penlind � aww, shucks! I was so looking forward to the look on Xander's face when they start getting chased around by Talos...*g* I can see I gots to refresh on the G-Man, back in a few... BTW, did that e go thru this time?

Irene Adler � You gotta have faith... or that recipe I e'd you the other day.

THINGS PARTAKING OF THE ANGEL SPOIL I DON'T KNOW THE TITLE SHOOT ME

LA

DEE

DA

"Okay, now I feel old..." somebody's been lurking...

DA

DEE

LA

END THINGS PARTAKING OF THE ANONYMOUS ANGEL SPOIL

Marz says:
(Tue May 1 21:33:16 2001 152.163.205.56): SPOILERS
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Buffy:
I love tonights episode. Its just sad what happened to Tara, I really feel Willow's pain. How about Glory's minion, the one Giles caught spying on them. That scene was funny. He said he'll never talk even if they torture him. Giles only asked for the twine to tie him up, he already squeek. Now that's really hysterical.

Angel:
It looks like Wesley is not fit to be the boss. His instincts are slow. He doesn't seem to have a close relationship w/ his father. Angel tanning himself at the studio is very cute. Hopefully Cordelia learns how to control her visions in the other dimension. Angel not bursting into flames, on next weeks ep. is very cool.
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End of Spoiler

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 21:28:15 2001 209.240.220.240): Slayerdaddy...

SPOILERISH SPECULATION ON BUFFY/TOUGH LOVE
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No, no, not Odyssey, we are definitely in the Epic of Gilgamesh. For it to be the Odyssey, Buffy would have to be a careless hero, mounting adventure without forethought or commandment. Nope, we are in Gilgamesh. Hero uses mandate to fight the good fight, until one day, death comes to play to close to home. Death becomes real and inevitable. Hero tries to defy Death by stealing back the loved one, but that fails too. Hero decides to out run death, to cheat it. And that is where we are.
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SPOILERISH SPECULATION ON BUFFY/TOUGH LOVE

Irene Adler says:
(Tue May 1 21:27:24 2001 63.21.224.226): slayerdaddy Thanks for the pint. But the woohoo is for the micro exam. The results from the chem exam won't be known until next Monday.

So. Anything interesting happen in tonight's episodes? VCR is taping as we speak.

laffin says:
(Tue May 1 21:27:24 2001 63.10.182.19): laffin wanders into the Bronze, orders a coke and a brownie and takes a seat.

Hey guys :)

Morella - Nope I haven't seen seasons 1-3 of Buffy. :( But they will be shown on FX soon! :) And yes, I will be taping every episode. *g*

Spoilers from tonights Buffy and Angel
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Buffy - I liked tonight show but it was kinda boring. I loved the Spike/Dawn/Buffy scenes though! I was cringing when Glory was crushing Taras hand! Ugh just thinking about it... Xander finally got a hair cut!!! *g*

Angel - I'm a Angel/Cordy shipper. It was soo cute how Angel was being all protective of her! I like the portals idea thing. We've heard about them... now we will get see see them! *g*
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Buffy/Angel spoilers

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 21:27:06 2001 172.146.173.153): Penlind - Amber is super isn't she. Actually, I have a hard time picking my favorites because everyone has their moments in the sun. : - )

As for Angel, some really good acting there...I am enjoying Cordelia's journey the most...I give her an award for the most evolved character on Angel. :-) And the Host is really funny. My question...do vampires really get heavier? Cause Angel certainly has gained some weight since '97. :-)

OK...Kitties really demanding a trip to the grocery store. G'night for real!

VBF

Narrator says:
(Tue May 1 21:25:08 2001 66.72.117.36): Dwee Dum -- Try again, kiddo. I haven't said that you can't criticize the show. Heck, go ahead and blast the writers, directors, actors, and the craft cart guy. BUT, you'd better be able to back up/defend what you say with something other than a blanket insult. And, you won't get anywhere by using derogatory expressions to describe someone's appearance or sexuality.

I wish Willow was still with Oz (I miss Seth Green) but I'm not going to rip the writers for defeating that expectation and taking me on a different story arc.

As for "political correctness,", that's a lazy label that all to often gets applied by folks who can't defend some sloppy argument or slur they float out when they get called on it.

But, if it's "politically correct" to point out that referring to homosexual women and homosexual women characters as "lesbos" is a slur, well fine.

None of that changes the cold hard fact that you used a slur and you shouldn't have done so. The First Amendment (which does NOT apply in here) might otherwise protect you from suit or prosecution (absent it being a "fighting word" or some such exception), but it doesn't alter the impropriety of your conduct.

Leona says:
(Tue May 1 21:24:29 2001 198.81.17.169): I am very upset that WB is taking Buffy off of their lineup. Does anyone know if another station is picking Buffy up? And what about Angel? Please e-mail me at: pupstorm@aol.com Thanks.

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 21:23:46 2001 209.178.134.226): Cirrus Kain gets thrown back into the loop with the force of Glory on a really really good day

Okay, whew. No more freaking out. I'm fine now.

ForeverFaith says:
(Tue May 1 21:23:23 2001 209.204.154.239): This episode was really well done. I thought Willow was kind of scary though...anyway the point being that I noticed this ep was written by one of the new writers. I have to say that I enjoyed her script and think she'll be a wonderful asset to the BtVS crew!

Mr. Whyt says:
(Tue May 1 21:23:19 2001 206.75.216.110): Mateo Nueva UPN is actually paying more per episode for Buffy than The WB was/is, expect at least some of that new money to go intot he show.

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 21:23:10 2001 12.77.80.90): Penlind - did you read my post from the previous board to Cairo on the nature of love? Anyway, whether I believe in gay sex or straight sex or sex outside of marriage, I believe that is the business of the individual, not mine. I guess I only feel someone's sexual orientation matters only if I plan to sleep with them.

VaBuffyFan - Are you offended because I believe that sex belongs within the bounds of marriage?

StG

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 21:22:23 2001 209.240.220.240): Breaking her promise not to roll down the window.

Political correctness would mean that the Bronzers didn't reject your unusual thoughts and theories, but instead stroked your feverish views and declared you were in some way allowed to hate because of blah blah blah. It would also mean that you were staked through the heart for your nonsense just now, but check your rearview mirror...you are not leaving unscathed.

Lurking Bronzer says:
(Tue May 1 21:21:59 2001 209.86.49.197): Buffy movin' to UPN FAQ

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 21:21:42 2001 209.182.160.250): IreneAdler � I tolja that last nite, did I not? slides her a pint

Marz says:
(Tue May 1 21:20:07 2001 152.163.205.56): I enjoy tonight's Buffy Ep. Amber Benson was really amazing tonight, so was Aly sson Hannigan. Although there were a few corny dialogues, the characters made me feel their pain.

Mateo Nuevo says:
(Tue May 1 21:20:04 2001 205.188.196.37): Umm...doesn't everything that goes onto UPN suck? You don't think Buffy's budget and such will plummet? I'm assuming that the company that makes buffy has no affiliation with upn, they're just selling the show...but what if??

Sparky says:
(Tue May 1 21:19:34 2001 206.168.123.181): Any idea what time or day will be on next year?

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 21:18:39 2001 209.182.160.250): penlind � you have e... Hmm, topic... well, in honor of Dwee Dum we could talk about that scene in the Odyssey where Ulysses and his crew land on the Isle of Lesbos and Queen Sappho has them beaten up by several large women in sensible sandals... or not...*g*

Hmmm...

THINGS PARTAKING OF THE TOUGH LOVE SPOIL LOOK I DID IT AGAIN

LA

DEE

DA

So what are we to make of tonite's ep thematically? Do you think Joss might really be doing an Odyssey, where Buffy winds up the lone survivor returning to whoever her Penelope turns out to be...?

DA

DEE

LA

END THINGS PARTAKING OF THE TOUGH LOVE SEE TOUGH LOVE SPOIL

Cirrus Kain says:
(Tue May 1 21:18:16 2001 209.178.134.226): DON'T LOOK!

I don't think my heart has started beating again yet. That can't be good.

Willow and Tara's fight really got to me tonight, because I was staring at them and realizing that I was Tara. I know what it's like to be afraid that a "newly gay" lover will stray back. Gave me... perspective. All that good stuff.

Hearing those words "series finale" makes me feel like a part of me is dying. And I wonder what is to become of us? Are we to scatter to the winds? What happens when there's no more to talk about?

Also, this is going to come out wrong, but Amber makes a really cute crazy person.

OKAY, YOU CAN LOOK NOW

AIM-CirrusKain

curly says:
(Tue May 1 21:17:36 2001 152.163.206.183): jane, buffy will be on upn, and it is udner a 2 year contract....yippy

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 21:17:24 2001 172.146.173.153): StGermain - Bashing period, of any kind, against anyone, is unseemly and doesn't belong on the board. It's pretty funny, but in my life, 90% of the homophobic comments I've experienced have been on the Buffy board...not from the regular posters, mind you, but from fly-by-posters. I think that most people are generally tolerant, intelligent people. And normally, I would keep quiet in the face of insults -- especially minor comments like those previously made. But I want people to understand that terms like "lesbos" does hurt. It's ugly and real world. I come here to relax and be among friends...not to have proverbial barbs slung at me. It's late and I am getting sleepy so my logic is all over the place...This sounded better when I started. :-)

VBF

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 21:16:58 2001 209.240.220.240): StG and Slayerdaddy...I am grinning from ear to ear, I love it, every word that you both are writing. Look at me, I'm smiling! Thank you.

VaBuffyFan...I agree. I am not a long fan of the show, but have seen bits and pieces, and yeah yeah yeah, Angel. I think season 5 is great, but if you don't understand mythology, it can get a bit deep. Nice to see someone else is enjoing a great show, in any season! And by the way, season 1,2,and 3 didn't have the exquisite Amber Benson.

Question...I agree. My best friend is from Bay Springs, Miss., and a kinder, more tolerant town I would be hard pressed to find...anywhere.

singsinthecar says:
(Tue May 1 21:16:30 2001 172.138.96.13): amberlynne: It's the other one with the cool name! Loved what you said to the bezoar - not every woman goes after one with a phallus. I'm trying really hard not to respond to those comments made that totally attack Willow and Tara and a person's sexuality.

singsinthecar

Dwee Dum says:
(Tue May 1 21:14:53 2001 64.229.130.165): Yes I know I am breaking some holy-sacred Bronze rule by posting this final, and might I add fourth post within the hour.

But I'd just like to say in my defence that the things that I said "lesbo", "deep-south", etc..... I didn't say them with a vicious intent nor did the posts sound cruel and vicious ( well unless you think Willow and Tara are real people, haha) take it with a grain of salt..... Take things lightly especially in a Buffy the Vampire Slayer posting board.

Political correctness is gonna kill everyone of you if you don't calm down once in a while.

Oh, and to the person that spoke of the legal term of Freedom of Speech.... yeah that is great..... But if you expect all this political correctness from me.... then be smart and stick with the norms, morals and ethics of our modern society that values free speech in any place public or private....

Willowhead says:
(Tue May 1 21:14:09 2001 209.187.60.15): I tried to study, really i did. just not happening. Plus, i think i heard something about a massuese? *G*

Reyna - Now that's a concept i could get into...a hand massuese. Can he be tall, and tann and nubile? Cuz, that'd just be cool *g* James Won!!! WooHoo. I'm thinking i voted about 2500 times...how sad is that? But not only is he a Buffy person, he's gorgeous and he's got a voice with the power to melt knees. I know what you mean about Buffy pride. I do feel it too. James is one of us. Can't let him not win. And we were, apparently, succesful. Yay Bronzers!!! T

And now...

Dwee Dum - *ahem* No foreshadowing? How bout "I'm so evil. and skanky. And i think i'm kinda gay" - Willow, about her doppleganger, season 3.And whoa - here's a concept. People don't know ahead of time who they'll love! People discover their sexuality at all times. From young children to the elderly...it's not something that can ever be cut and dried into college experimentation, it just doesn't work like that, esp. in the kind of loving, caring, supportive relationship Willow and Tara have. Also, the Willow/Tara relationship has been completely unadvertised. Not one trailer, not one commercial, had anything about their kiss in The Body. It's never been used to try and attract somehorny guys who want to see two chicks getting it on. That's completely not the nature of the show, and it's completely not the nature or the W/T relationship. Willow and Tara are here to stay, so, as they say, deal with it or get the *$%# out!!!

sorry. shouldn't feed the bezoars. i know this. bad day. done now

Willowhead who is really gone now

Jane says:
(Tue May 1 21:13:59 2001 63.15.3.49): I've been watching Buffy for years (since the beggining). I only now figured out that the show is leaving WB (don't ask which rock i live under). Anyone have a clue about where (or if) it's going?

Wyndchyme says:
(Tue May 1 21:12:22 2001 128.101.47.7): For those of you poor individuals who missed it: James MARSTERS WON THE PEOPLE.COM ON-LINE POLL!!!!
Woo-freakin'-hoo!

Bad picture, but WE all know how hot he is. The eyes, the cheekbones...*blatant James worship occurs*

Need to know all about it? Go here: http://people.aol.com/people/spa/50most2001/poll/index.html

Moloch2002 says:
(Tue May 1 21:11:58 2001 205.188.199.163): Hello to all. Tonight's epi. was amazing. I think I need to fold my nakins too.

WARNING SORD OF SPOILER BELOW
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Does anyone know which minion was SLOOK? thanx.
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WARNING SPOILER SORD OF ABOVE

SO's: Allyson, Amberlynne, Angel_Vampire01, AngelGrl and her mom, AngelsWatcher24, Buffy5202, Carl, CharlieX, Cirrus Kain, EDI Faith, EvilSIT, Exion, FSM CDMan, Gazoo, GurlGreen, Icelord, Jimbo, KC, Kim!, Lady of Buffdom, Lady Wolfsbane Lil Pia, LilBufBuf, Little Willow, Lotus, Lovely Poet, LuLu, LUPE, Lurking Regular, Malista, Miguel, Monique, Mrs.Beasly, Old One, PhoenixANgel, Rags, Rainmaker20, Sita The Night Goddess, SlayerGrl99, SpookyMagoo, SusieQ, Swoop, The Red Hood, Thoin, Thumper, ValMichael, Wolfguard, XG, Zelda, everyone posting and everyone else I forgot!

Member #18 of the Angel Dancing Club: The one who dances with thee supernatural beings.

Proud member #59 of the PHBA.

Guttery Coucher #25

Drooling member #114 of Amber Benson is a Hottie.

Darlacious member #44 of Darla's Darlings.

Earling morning member #29 of Dusk 2 Dawn.

BWCGG #149!

Spazmyster #65! WOO!

Caulfieldian #66!

Give Amber a chance!

"Ready to get down, you funky party weasel?"

"I laugh in the face of danger. Then I hide untill it goes away."

"If every vampire who said he was at the Crucifixion was actually there, it would've been like Woodstock."

"Sometimes I think about two women doing a spell...and then I do a spell by myself."

"You think you know. What you are. What's to come. You haven't even begun."

*PROFESSIONALY SKULKING*

Irene Adler says:
(Tue May 1 21:11:47 2001 63.21.224.226): Irene Adler wanders into the bronze

Heya. Got the second highest score on my micro final. should have been higher, but I didn't study enough

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 21:09:09 2001 209.240.220.240): Allyson?...Is that you, Allyson? Did you just say give up Fury?

Wolfguard...That was brilliant!

I love this spectator stuff!

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 21:09:04 2001 12.77.80.90): Penlind, VaBuffyFan - Thanks. I dislike judgemental behaviour. And people may think that by bashing those who don't like gays is fine, that they're all good and politcally correct, but they have no more right to bash those who believe homosexuality is bad, as the others have to bash gaysand those who support them. And honestly, as an observant Catholic, my (unasked for) opinion is that sex outside of marriage is wrong. So I'm far more conservative, probably, than Dwee Dum.

StG

Nash says:
(Tue May 1 21:08:07 2001 63.73.62.93): The writer of tonight's ep was masterful in every possible way - characters, dialogue, pacing, you name it!

Except one. She didn't get Anya right. Even by Anya standards she was bizarre. Elderly French people? Communism?

Apart from that though, first-rate! Well done!

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 21:07:33 2001 209.182.160.250): Call Scientific American! The experiment was a success! Dwee Dum was successfully thawed out of that glacier! Of course, DD seems to have lost all memory of the last TWO YEARS but I suppose that is a minor side effect, nothing to be alarmed about...

BTW � Our lesbians are much cuter than their lesbians...

THINGS PARTAKING OF THE TOUGH LOVE SPOIL

LA

DEE

DA

Nice to see Giles letting Ripper out to play a little...

ja, und I zee zat my zientific prognostications of last nite were verified and the evil Joss did decide to make Willow zuffer thru Tara, she did go dark � und she vas totally hot doink it!

END THINGS PARTAKING OF THE TOUGH LOVE LOOK I SAID IT EVEN THOUGH WE NEVER WORRIED ABOUT IT BEFORE SPOIL

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 21:06:55 2001 172.146.173.153): Dwee Dum - Just to let you know...I am gay. I value everyone's opinion. But frankly, concerning people and what they feel you don't know diddly.

As for your comments regarding seasons one and two...yeah, they were fantastic...but I've seen some great stuff in seasons 3, 4, and 5, too. As you probably realize, these characters can't stay the same forever or we'd all lose interest in them.

VBF

Question says:
(Tue May 1 21:06:07 2001 216.76.187.247): Dwee Dum says: *gone off to a place that is a little more tolerant.... like the deep-south(yeah right)* Have you ever been to the Deep South? We actually get along very nicely with each other. Despite what Arrogant narrow minded people, who the closes they have come to the south is the VHS movie Gone with the Wind

Safarigirl says:
(Tue May 1 21:05:26 2001 207.107.254.60): Thought I'd drop by after both eps and see what fresh crop of bezoars we got...

As for the Eps.
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They were confusing. Very. i don't know what to think, except that maybe this battle with Glory is one that Buffy can't win. Doesn't necessarily mean she'll lose, but I doubt very much we'll be seeing 'Slayer victorious' at the end of the season.

Did anyone catch Buffy's comment about "I have a life, and it's Dawn's" ? Foreshadowing, maybe?

As for Angel - major father/family issues happening. I love how the Host has turned out to be fronting a bit. I bet Caritas isn't a sanctuary at all - the Host just manages to convince people not to be violent by the strength of his personality, and by pretending that Caritas is everything he says it is...and now the PTB are tapping him on the shoulder and saying 'Oh, Lorne, we need to talk...'

Yay for the Haiku Shout-out! Yay for Lorne Greene (= Canadian content). Yay for Angel being nostalgic for old TV shows! :)

and also, what happens now?
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Spoilers for the eps

Cashmere says:
(Tue May 1 21:04:04 2001 24.95.89.186): Amberlynne what do I have to do to make it up to you??? Just name it. WOW, double OT...the Blues do rock!

Thoin how long do I have to wait until I visit little May?

My stupid-head affiliate doesn't show next week's previews...do they look good? stupid question, huh?

Insane for Kane #69--just wicked lucky, I guess!
DeKnight Rider #44

Narrator says:
(Tue May 1 21:04:02 2001 66.72.117.36): Perrin GoldenEyes -- I respect your sentiments but, please do not threaten another poster or wish him or her to meet with such misadventure as death. They aren't worth that much passion from anyone. And it undercuts your argument.

Angy says:
(Tue May 1 21:02:57 2001 63.48.163.118): So if Buffy is ending the series, then what's gonna happen to Spike?! I love that good/evil confused vamp!

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 21:02:24 2001 172.146.173.153): Kitties are demanding an emergency trip to the grocery store... :-) Gotta run. G'night all...

VBF

curly says:
(Tue May 1 21:02:11 2001 152.163.206.183): spolier kinda...nto really...
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what is it with ben and glory? they r 2 diff gods, that share one body? can glory take over when ever she wants? if nayone knows, pleaes let me know
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Dwee Dum says:
(Tue May 1 21:01:48 2001 64.229.130.165): Perrin GoldenEyes - That is a good explanation of your own views and opinions.

Ally Mcbeal and Friends never claimed to be a "serious" show like Joss Whedon(sp?) holds his show to be. So it is understandable that they would pull a stunt like that...

Although I hate Dawson's Creek I must say that they handled the Jack=gay thing nicely.... and believably.... even if the acting was ***.....

VaBuffyFan - hahahahaha.....

All - how old are you people.... relax, you aren't going to like what everyone says in this world.... there are actually opinions that will differ from yours and may possibly be the opposite!

As for critisizing the show..... who the f*** cares..... I am hurting someone from doing that (well the die-hard immature fans) but whatever..... It is the die-hards that make the show suck!!!! They swallow anything that the show gives them. If you actually had your own opinion the show might still be as great as it once was......

A little more constructive criticism and a little less blind-praise, and just general kissing-ass, may do much good for Buffy!!!!

That's all folks.... *gone off to a place that is a little more tolerant.... like the deep-south(yeah right)*

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 21:01:22 2001 209.240.220.240): Narrator, StG and Slayerdaddy ...Yeah! Hooray! Well said! And I want to blow up the balloons for the party! Have to warn you though, Paks said hands in the car at all times and absolutely no feeding. OK, Joss-like "Only for our teen and adult audience" warnings aside...WEEEEEE!

JustLiza says:
(Tue May 1 21:00:38 2001 204.42.18.40): Tough love spoilage
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Wow... you go Willow! Rock on, baby! How about floating Willow with all-black eyes, like Miricle Max's huh? Huh? yeahhhhhh! And poor Tara. I have the feeling she'll be back though. And WHERE WERE THEY when Glory ripped the wall off and found them, and discovered Dawn?? It didn't look like anyplace I recognized. Black walls, boxes...? The store-room of the Magic Box perhaps? I almost thought it was someone's dream, that it wasn't real. I guess we'll find out next eppy. And finally, being the Spike shipper that I am... AWWWW to his talking with Dawn. "Rot!" he says with surety, after almost touching Dawn's head in comfort. Spike, Spike, lovely still-bruised Spike... what're they doing to you?

*
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Tough Love Spoilage above

JustLiza
RRRSO's to Diablo! Sorry I keep poofing, hun!

(keeper of secrets and other small things(
"I'm not lurking. I'm standing about. It's a whole different vibe."
SO's to all the shiny happy Bronzers.
*******
Damn your sinister good looks.
*******
s-Balf-d

*poof*

amberlynne says:
(Tue May 1 20:58:22 2001 24.219.170.67): YAY Blues!

singsinthecar Hey one with the cool name! :)

white wings: Ahem. At the end of the month, granny! *g* Don�t worry, we are doing the Moveforfree.com thing. Maybe you can come help decorate. ;)

Reyna: See above, old crotchety one! :P Yay for James, the super h*ttie!

Narrator: Know what I love? My evil dark mistress and her sharp wit! *SMOOCH*

Cashmere: *sniff* I feel so betrayed! *sniff* ;)

Dwee Dum: Maybe Joss wanted to portray someone that is more concerned with who the person is they are falling love not necessarily just whether or not they have a penis. And what Narrator said.

An Emmy for Buffy
A Chance for Amber
The NEW NickBrendon.com
A CD for Chris Beck? E-Mail Fox Music!
The NEW Fury�s Fanatics at www.DavidFury.net
Buffy�s Move to UPN FAQ

proper spoiler warning suggestions/instructions

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 20:58:02 2001 172.146.173.153): StGermain - As usual, very, very well said.

VBF

singsinthecar says:
(Tue May 1 20:56:59 2001 172.138.96.13): To reiterate what Yummy said, heck yeah, Tara and Willow rock! :)

Yummy: Bye to you! When you scroll - I noticed that someone posted a summary of "Tough Love" at the Amber board too. Luckily I didn't see it until after I saw the ep. I'm still writing out my post for it to put into the "Tough Love Spoilers++" thread. Can't wait until you see it and post your thoughts!

Willowhead: I'm okay, considering tonight's Buffy. See below - when you scroll that is.

wolfguard: *gasp* You said "good evening" instead of "greetings"! Just kidding. Did you catch tonight's Buffy? You can see some of my thoughts below if you like.

Penlind: See more comments below to feed your mind (as opposed to sucking it out). *g*

white wings: Hello tonight!

amberlynne: Hey!

SPOILERS FOR TOUGH LOVE
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dualslayers: I just read your post, and I completely agree with you. Willow and Tara do have a normal relationship - they have a bond that leads me to believe they are soulmates. Tonight Willow showed just how much she loves Tara with her words ("She's my everything.") and her actions (trying dark magic to attack Glory). Amber did such a good job in tonight's episode; I was almost brought to tears (unlike you who actually did break down *g*) watching Tara suffer because of Glory.

Willowhead: Yes, Tara's comment about Willow getting more powerful - great foreshadowing. I really hope Tara gets better, although it is so nice to see Willow taking care of Tara. Tara really is Willow's "everything." As for my physical reaction to the ep, not only did I put my hand in my mouth, I also curled up in a fetal position on the couch. It was so difficult to watch Tara in that mental state. I have to reiterate how much I admire Amber Benson - she is so talented! Don't you agree? *g*
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END OF SPOILERS FOR TOUGH LOVE

singsinthecar

wolfguard says:
(Tue May 1 20:56:52 2001 209.193.234.4): Dwee Dum,

Willow and Tara met over a year ago. The relationship began developing at that time. Not quite done for sweeps.

If one wanted to do an episode designed for sweeps alone, then it might go like this....

Ext. Cave

Willow is searching frantically for the opening.

Tara: It's this way Willow. Over here.
Willow: But that way's so dark Tara.
Tara: All you need is a candle.

Big Search Light Appears Off in the Distance

Oz (OC): Willow!!!

And Willow WAKES up from the dream. Grabs the phone.

Willow: Buffy! We' got to straighten up and fly right.
Buffy: Easy for you. You've just got to drop the lilt in the voice.
Willow: Wrong gender.
Buffy: Whatever. Angel's curse smitten.
Willow eyeing spell book.
Willow: Where there's a will, there's a way.

alot of other stuff, but the final scene

Buffy & Angel and Willow & Oz double-dating at the Five and Dime (stretch your memories folks) *g*

Good Night to All

WG

Allyson says:
(Tue May 1 20:55:39 2001 64.12.104.182): Let me be the first member of the
Sistah-hood of
Rebecca...giving the boys a
run for their money. I'd drop
Fury for you, bay-bee. Rebecca
rocketh to the 100th power...

-------------------
------------
--------
----
-

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 20:55:15 2001 12.77.80.90): Dwee Dum - I agree about the first and second seasons being the best. However, I wouldn't charactarize Willow as being "Boy Crazy". She had life-long crushies on Xander adn she fell for Oz. To me, I'd say Willow falls in love with people, not genders. I do not like the term "lesbo", which is insulting. I don't like the idea that you want her dead because of her sexual orientation.

Perrin GoldenEyes - You're worse than Dwee. He/she is wishing a fictional character dead. You're wish a real person dead. That's as bad as those who beat up gays.

StG

magickah says:
(Tue May 1 20:55:10 2001 24.4.254.137): does anyone know where buffy is going after they are off the WB?

Narrator says:
(Tue May 1 20:54:54 2001 66.72.117.36): Must be because it's Law Day.

Dwee Dum -- First of all, "freedom of speech" means that the government cannot pass laws restricting free speech. This is not a government posting board. It is a private one. You don't have any "right" to free speech here.

Nevertheless, we like folks who have a opinion and argue it. But, folks who use derogatory terms about another's sexuality are not welcome here. Got it?

As for the show: The issue of whether Willow may be gay was referred to in "Dopplegangerland", a Season 3 episode.

There is not a single shred of evidence that Willow falling in love with Tara was a ratings stunt. In fact, there were a lot of comments from ill-informed folks that it would cost the show viewers.

Yummy says:
(Tue May 1 20:53:35 2001 216.209.226.86): I know. I know. I lied *g*

Reyna, Paks, Amberlynne
Thanks for the huggage, and big
{{{{{SMOOCHIES}}}}}} back at all
of ya.

Dwee Dum
One word: Dopplegangland

Gone. Really. I swear it on my
sweety's head

----------
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-------

Hollyn says:
(Tue May 1 20:51:57 2001 63.104.138.150): Hi Willowhead

greengirl: Couldn't agree with you more. As for consequence - maybe it's a tie over for next season as it has been in the past. That's my only hope to clear that up. :)

silverwolf:

SPOILER/SPEC Belonging

Yep, did hear that. Maybe it's the Host's home planet from which Glory has been exiled. cross-over opportunity - a strange one, nevertheless, an opportunity

SPOILER above

Night Everyone!

SOs to Acid Cross, Adina, Adri, Aethelaf, Aiglos, AjO, AKA Becker, Alaric, Algerina, Allison, Allyson, Alpy, Erika Amato, Amethyst, Amish Boy, anais, andyourlittledogtoo, Angela, Angelphyre, AngelRachel, Angle Man, Antipodean, Anya, A Polite Bronzer, Arana the Arachnid, Arcadia, Arielle, Asanti, AuroraStar, AussieGirl, Balf, banana, Batra, Chris Beck, Beldin, Bentley, Blackheart, Blade � the Vampire Hunter, Marc Blucas, Blueronin, bluestocking, Boo a mouse, Brandi the Slayer, Nicholas Brendon, Bri, Bruces Mom, Buffman, BuffyRileySlayTA, Buffy Sheridan, Calen, Candy, Candy Kane, Carita, Cate, Catriona, Celine, ~ceridwen~, Charity aka Taygeta, CharlieX, Cherie, chi, cian, Circe, Cirrus, Claddagh, Claris, Clattering, Cleio, Corpelia, Cosmic Bob, Cricket, Crimson, curiousg, Cyrano, Darla the Vampire, David's Chick, deadguy, delf, DeMoriel, Destiny, Destructo girl, devil, devilish angel, Dianne, DoBoy, Doppler99, DreamingHawk, DreamLurker, drdan, Dust�em, Dutch, DV Jymm, Echo, Eddileg, elusio, Erie, Jane Espenson, esther, EverDawn, Faithsbro, FASTEDDIE, Fatima, Fax1, 4paws, Frodo, FSM CDMan, gazoo, genrefan, Chris Golden, Godeater, greendude, greeneyes, Harry Haller, Haven, Hitomi Terwilliger, horizon, Holly Frog, Huntress, Icelord, IMMORTAL, Irishgirl, Ivy, Jaan Quidam, Jamie, Jasmen, jennejenn, JenniferLynn, Jimbo, joey Emma, J.S.K., Juggernaut, jvs, Kaoru, KaraBear, Keywe, Kiba Rika, Kiera, Kimberly, Robert Kral, KrazyKat, Kristen, kugelmass, Labryth, Lady Bathory, Lady Jupiter, Lady Wolfsbane, La Timide, *LB*, Leather Jacket, Lee, the Chicken Slayer, Lil' Tree, Lioness, Little Willow, Lookingglass, Lord Mysty Mage, lost boy, Lovely Poet, LunaMoon, lunec, lurkingb, LurkingGirl, Mabb, Macheath, Maki Maus, Malista, Manx, Masquerade, MeeB, Megdalen, Menkhare, Mh, Miguel, Tim Minear, Mircalla, ~~ m i r e m b a ~~, Missi - my royal momlet, Miss Scarlett, Monique, Morbius, Moriah, Mr. EverDawn, Mr. Gordo, Mrs.Beasley, Mr. EverDawn, Mr. Whyt, mudpuppy, Myslayre, Narrator, newfan, Night Owl, nil8r, ntmt, NuPhalanx, nya, OldManFan, Old One, OzLady, Ozman, Paris_Angel, pdx, Peace Fire, Pixie, Polgara, Prince of Lunacy, Jeff Pruitt, Raelynn, Rile, Robyn The Snowshoe Hare, rojo, RomanAround, RoseBud, Rosencranz, RTBS, rtyrrell, Rum Spike, Sachiel, Safarigirl, Sapphire, SarahNicole, Sarah's carl, Sasheer, scram, Sejin & roomie, Shadowslayer, shehawken, ShyGirl, Sidhe, Sita the Night Goddess, slay_me, SLaYeR, Slayer chick, slayerdaddy, slayerfiction, Some Psycho Named Sam, Sonja Marie, Spacebabie, SpookyMagoo, Starr, StGermain, 'stina, Strawberries, Danny Strong, Suekib, SusieQ, Sufi, Surfstalker, taraAnyaKate4eva, Taster�s Choice, TB, TheaterGirl, the red hood, thy Slayer � my lil�sis~~brat~~let *g*, TV James, unmixything, VaBuffyFan, Vaedus, valMichael, violet, VoxMaille, wanttoknow, weeping willow, Werewolf, Where, wolf?, Joss Whedon, white wings, willa, Willowhead, willow worshipper, Witchy Woman, wolfguard, XANDmasterlurkER, X-Lander, xxM, Yooper, Zedsdead, Zeus, zOmb, the UK Bronzers - Angelus, Catherine/Narnia/Undecided, Cobby, DELiver, DingoBaby, Dru, Elly, GrimReaper, Jennie, Jipsy Girl, Kenickie, lexdra, MedusA, Motorcycle au pair Boy, PDR, Pooka, Rachie, redruM, Sanguineus, Shadowbound6, Shiraz-Petra, TMorel, umbris, the Chicago Bronzers � Angel Love, BATS396, Bubonic Plague, cabin7dad, Closet Buffyholic, dynagirl, Goldspike, greengirl, KAM, Kameko, Kansas, KarenT, Lilly Rosenburg, Liza, LJC, Macho Macho Man, Marissa, maryloye, Mesuvius, Mia, Nicole, Occido, Queen of Shemahka - M.O.M., Shaun, Stakeme@420, Tina, Vanessa, Xander's Girl, Xfiler, and everyone else at the Bronze

~Hollyn

"The Cheerleader"
�Academically Talented Butt Monkey�
"International Bondage Girl"
"The Drive-by Queen"
sislet to thySlayer
twinlet to Holly Frog
kidlet to AmiMissi
auntlet to Caroline Grace
cousinlet to jv

Kaanvaas says:
(Tue May 1 20:51:50 2001 152.163.213.196): I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but I'd just like to let everyone know that James Marsters has won the People.com online vote for most beautiful person. He came in first place. This is totally independent of the magazine version, but it's a wonderful surprise, and kudos to all his fans who voted! I hope he hears about this, or will hear about it soon.

Perrin GoldenEyes says:
(Tue May 1 20:49:59 2001 209.240.220.207): It was not a ratings stunt! Have you ever watched Ally Mcbeal or Friends?! That was a ratings stunt, every three seconds it was advertised on their respective networks.

The Willow/Tara relationship was NEVER hyped like that. It was treated from day one like any other relationship on the show.

I guess some people only see what they want to see.

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 20:49:36 2001 172.146.173.153): color me stupid too. That "other d" should be a b.

No sleep = eye suck

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 20:47:53 2001 172.146.173.153): You know, I normally try to ingore bezoric comments, all I can say is Dwee Dum you forgot the other d at the end of Dum. Stupid @ss comments about characters like Tara and Willow do not belong here.

VBF

Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:47:13 2001 207.112.166.33): Oops...forgot my siggy...here siggysiggysiggy! Here siggy!

Thoin
a/k/a "She Who Knows"
Friendly adversary to the nefarious Old One
Namer of TAPDancing Fools, a subset of the ADC
TAPDancing Fools member #5 (Just call me 'Ginger')
Lurkage Maintenance Supervisor
Dingo Dusting Team Wrangler Extraordinnaire
Maintenance Supervisor of the Bronze Menagerie
Keeper of the Liv-A-Snaps
Owner of a dingo named "Lurker", protector of Fifths and Bronzers
"Momlet" to Slayergrl99
"Momlet" to Irene Adler
"Batty Goddaughter" to Asanti
"Sisterlet" to Algerina
"Auntlet" to Lady Samantha
"Auntlet" to Dirty Socks
"Auntlet" to Rosebud
"GodMomlet" to TB
Bronze "Plebean" #5, 'cause Joss says we are!
a/k/a "Thong" (to the terminally myopic, anyway!)
NOPs #5
Member #32 of "Hallet is a Hottie" (Hey, they add up to "5"!)
Member #185 of "Fury's Fanatics" (well, there's a "5" in it, at least!)
Member #35 of "DeKnight's Riders" (look ma, ANOTHER "5"!!!)

"Oh, please, Uncle John! When's the last time you tore yourself away from ESPN long enough to spill the blood of a she-goat?"
- Harry Doyle, "The Bachelor Party" (Angel)

"Maybe because you're an impotent little Nazi with a bug up his butt the size of an emu?"
- Cordelia Chase "Becoming, Part I" (Buffy)

"I always knew you could do better than a B minus. Now I understand. Your energies were directed in the same places as ours, in fact. It's only our methods that differ. We use the latest in scientific technology and state-of-the-art weaponry and you, if I understand correctly, poke them with a sharp stick."
- Maggie Walsh "A New Man" (Buffy)

"Glamorous LA lifestyle! I get to make the coffee and chain the boss to the bed!"
- Cordelia Chase "Somnambulist" (Angel)

"A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend."
- Willow Rosenberg "The Initiative" (Buffy)

"I'm the Host. Have you met me? I never shut up!"
- The Host "Happy Anniversary" (Angel)

"But you were just soulless, bloodsucking demons. They're lawyers!"
- Cordelia Chase "The Trial" (Angel)

"I am fifth, fear me!"
- Thoin

Reyna says:
(Tue May 1 20:46:59 2001 216.191.161.191): Willowhead! - James won!!! Happy happy! I was voting for a while yesterday and today. It�s just a matter of pride, you know? Can�t let of one of ours lose! All you guys who voted so determinedly are fantastic! Can I get an ice pack for your hand? A masseuse?

Amberlynne - Didya see? James won the People�s most beautiful thing. I know it�s not David, but� And, yes, when will your move be complete? white wings and I are getting tired of these walkers.

Penlind - I wish, with all my heart, for everything to go well. I think about Djoser a lot during the day, and of you.

Yummy - A great big {{{HUG}}}.

vicki says:
(Tue May 1 20:46:54 2001 24.68.66.115): hey people its vicki, i'm new here. i just wanted to say that i really don't like what spike is becomming. ever since he's gotten that chip in his head, hes compleatly buffy-whipped. he's losing the attitude, the coolness of a vampire that he once had, etc. i hope for the sake of all spike-as-a-vamp fans that he gets this chip out, and goes for a nice blood-drinking after. what do you think?

greengirl says:
(Tue May 1 20:46:28 2001 209.176.105.58): well...no real time to post..so just a few thoughts and such

SPOILERS

i think i need to go see what monumental project Dean Butler is working on that they can't get him to come on the freakin show

and oh, i didn't know they were making "The Craft 2", interesting...

this episode was just....missing something. it's like, the writer was just given a brief character description and told to go. the tara/willow fight was forced and horribly out of place. (what lately has willow done to make tara think she doesn't really love her?) willow practicing the darkest magicks, and hey look, no consequences. and could those darkest magicks be any lamer? the episode just was missing some real character connections, and flow..it was choppy.

what i did like was...

XANDER'S HAIR!! YAY!

Amber did a nice job

LOVE LOVE LOVE spike and dawn. they are just so cute.

Giles/Ripper...yummy :)

and Anyas whole patriotic bad old french people speach...cause of the fun. :)

ANGEL on the other hand was so much more perfect and entertaining in the teaser then the whole of buffy. how is that?

loved the gunn storyline! i was so worried about him being a full timer, but i think they have incorporated him so nicely into the story. and i loved his conflict tonight. it was so great! J. August ROCKS!

LOVE LOVE LOVE Andy. not much else to say about him. :)

Love light hearted angel, and knight angel, and here kitty kitty angel. :)

cordy. think she's a wonderfully rounded character. i like that she has a strong side, but then we see her being weak. we see the soft side, and then her vain side. I think Charisma has really grown.

Wesley. well, i've always loved him, but i kinda felt he was lacking in stuff to do tonight. but i'm ok with that. cause he's had strong stuff in the past.

my one nit-picky point. WE GET IT! FATHERS ARE ALL BAD. how many times do they have to beat us all over the head with their lame fathers are bad people tripe? geez, find a new theme. can't we have ONE good father?

END O SPOILERY THOUGHTS

-gg

agslayer says:
(Tue May 1 20:45:25 2001 64.12.101.151): I see we have a lot of newbies today.

My favorite question yet is "What exactly is Giles?"

That was great! *g*

Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:45:21 2001 207.112.166.33): Well, I hate this, but I'm going to bed...too tired to keep my eyes open any longer (or I'd rewatch both eps).

Narrator says:
(Tue May 1 20:45:04 2001 66.72.117.36): Dwee Dum -- Know what I miss?

I miss the days when people remembered to use spoiler warnings.

I miss the days when folks knew how to spell "lesbian" and "independent".

I miss the days when people were confident enough in their argument not to resort to name-calling and slurs about another person's sexual orientation. Oh, actually, we haven't actually achieved those days yet. Darn.

Know what I don't miss? you.

Please use Spoiler Warnings when discussing the new episodes or future promos/speculations/developments
or
you will be cast into the Fires of Hell
and we will enjoy watching you roast.

If you are trying to post spoilers from another site, please just post a link to that site.

Buffy is Not Being Cancelled
It's Just Leaving theWB and Moving to the UPN

This will not effect the show's availability outside of the US, but US viewers need to find out if there is a UPN station in their area or if its shows are carried on their cable/satellite system.
Here's the UPN FAQ.

Dwee Dum says:
(Tue May 1 20:44:48 2001 64.229.130.165): Not at all D.... but if opinions and freedom of speech isn't tolerated in this message board then I guess I am looking for a "fight".

Whatever.... I just think that the show was amazing in season 1 and 2. There is NO question that it sucks now compared to season 1 and 2.

For the record I have NOTHING against lesbians.... but I do have a problem with using lesbians as a source of boosting ratings during sweeps. Plus Willow's lesbian status came out of NO WHERE!!!! There was never even a clue and then all the sudden in season 4 she is a full blown lesbo...... UNREALISTIC!!!!!!!!!!!

If the writers hinted it even a little in the earlier episodes I would accept it.... but there was nothing..... Willow was boy crazy up until season 4! STRANGE!!!! And don't tell me she was confused. Obsessions like that over Xander and Oz weren't confusion. If anything this college exploration stage is just that.... total confusion....

Let's hope that UPN will put Buffy back on track!!!!

Sparky2001 says:
(Tue May 1 20:43:38 2001 206.168.123.181): So I've been watching Buffy since the beginning and Giles has always seemed to have a dark side? Do you think this side will be revealed in the next episodes?

christopher says:
(Tue May 1 20:43:01 2001 165.228.131.11): could i have an address to write to James marsters & how did dawn come into it

Perrin GoldenEyes says:
(Tue May 1 20:42:43 2001 209.240.220.207): Dwee Dum: I hope *YOU* DIE! Now go away and rot you little sh*t.

silverwolf says:
(Tue May 1 20:42:30 2001 24.10.100.64): angel spoiler
.
.
.
.
.
i mentioned this earlier, but i was wondering if anyone else heard the hosts cousin talking aout being "given" to glory when the host does his death rites.

some things just bother the heck out of you till you get a response from someone.
.
.
.
.
.
.
angel spoiler

paksenarrion-who is over posting but says:
(Tue May 1 20:42:15 2001 209.4.94.5): Yummy {{Hugs}} Ignore the rantings of that idiot.

SQUISH

could someone please clean up that mess-thanks

Paks

PooF

Jeff says:
(Tue May 1 20:42:07 2001 65.26.105.240): Superb episode... It's about time Willow got to show what she's made of... I sense anger, hee hee

Cashmere says:
(Tue May 1 20:41:54 2001 24.95.89.186): Hello All! Thoin, Penlind, Amberlynne and anyone I may have missed too lazy to scroll

Did I miss anything while I was out? Mr. Cashmere lost his softball game, but Buffy was incredible, as usual.

so glad James won at people.com...not that I was worried...because he is most beautiful, sexy....*g* I could go on!

amberlynne says:
(Tue May 1 20:40:26 2001 24.219.170.67): ....runs after Yummy and gives her a big hug and a SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCH.....

Dwee Dum: Please use proper spoiler warnings when your homophobic ramblings contain spoilers. Thank you!

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 20:39:34 2001 12.77.80.90): sparky2000 - Giles just intimidated him. If a god is measured by her minions, I wouldn't rate Glory very high.

StG

T Jones says:
(Tue May 1 20:39:31 2001 209.86.211.97): I have to say that I admire the
twists of tonight's plot but am
very disappointed that it was
Tara and the only solid lesbian
relationship on TV that had to
take the brunt of Glory's
violence. I found her character
a nice addition to the "gang"
and I hope Joss finds a way to
save her.

white wings says:
(Tue May 1 20:39:00 2001 63.44.86.64): Buffy NOT ending, moving to UPN

Happy Birthday
Bailey Chase, Julie Benz, Mabb

Adri - I can well believe that YOU would have asparaguts for lunch. *eg* OK, I eat it too, sometimes, for the medicinal value. But not okra or stewed tomatoes. One has to draw a line somewhere.

Penlind - {{{hugs and best wishes}}} for Djo.

newfan - Got your e. 5 1/2 hours? sheesh. How is babyvamp? Probably more tired by the waiting than anything. He has my vote for a day off. But then, I like days off. ;-)

Amberlynne - Um, when will your move be complete? I have a feeling that Reyna's and my back problems will improve immensely thereafter. From the rest, yes, that's it, the rest.

D says: (Tue May 1 20:38:41 2001 205.188.200.172): You're just looking to pick a fight, aren't you dwee?

Theend says:
(Tue May 1 20:37:24 2001 205.200.254.94): HI all, im new to this, but i was wondering if anyone knows what they are refuring to when they say only 5 episodes left. Is it buffy overall? :( I hope not. Or is it the season? or is it the end of the episodes with the "key"? If you could let me know that would be great. :)

Yummy says:
(Tue May 1 20:35:40 2001 216.209.226.86): *sigh*

Why. Why. Why.
Why did I have to hit "refresh",
and get depressed reading the
post of a pathetic excuse for a
human being.

*sigh*

Really gone this time.
As I should have been.

Oh. And Willow and Tara ROCK!
That is all.

*POOF*

----------------
----------------
----------------
-------------

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 20:35:03 2001 209.240.220.240): StG...He is an avid fan of the Bronze, but none of us are really used to computers. I think he is holding back until he gets more comfortable. There's the difference in the two of them... Simon waits until he learns a new thing before having a go, and Cai jumps off the cliff without looking. Simon is from Israel.

Slayerdaddy...And so what is our topic this evening?

Singsinthecar...Hi! I love the thoughts you just posted for Willowhead, and I agree.

Guenevere says:
(Tue May 1 20:34:15 2001 38.32.79.169): Delurking to chime in on tonights eps.

Spoilers
5
4
3
3
2
1
Buffy - I know where Joss got the idea for Glory's brain sucking - it is from putting his hand in our hearts and jerking them around. Great ep - it is so different to watch a show that actually puts it regulars in real danger - it makes it so much more suspenseful. For those that worried that there is an inconsistancy with how crazy Tara got - there are two possible reasons. One - Glory didn't really have time to take it all. Or - she said that Tara's mind gave her a buzz. Maybe it was stronger than the others so it made it harder for Glory to take it.

Angel - my favorite moment was the guys thinking about Cordy in the bathing suit. I like it that they don't ignore the fact that these guys are working with a beautiful woman - no matter how brotherly they feel towards her.
4
3
2
1
1
Spoiling things above.

Worriedaboutfarewell says:
(Tue May 1 20:34:15 2001 205.200.254.94): Hi Ive heard a rumor about only 5 more episodes of buffy. Does anyone know if thats refureing to the season or to the show in general. Thanx all. The last episode was soooooooo sad.

Sparky2001 says:
(Tue May 1 20:33:50 2001 206.168.123.181): So what exactly is Giles? What did he do to the Monk to make him talk???

wolfguard says:
(Tue May 1 20:33:06 2001 209.193.234.4): Good Evening singsinthe car

slayerdaddy,

Aardvark: An USAF aircraft. Also, Afrikkaner or Dutch for earth pig. Porky with a love for ants. *g*

WG

Dwee Dum says:
(Tue May 1 20:32:05 2001 64.229.130.165): Ding-dong the bitch (Oops) I mean witch is DEAD!!!!!!

I hope this is the beginning of the END for Tara......... I've had enough of that lesbo................

Now if they could only kill off Willow too.....

I miss season 1 and 2 of Buffy.... Did anyone notice that in the beginning Buffy was a quality show something like an independant film and now it is more like a "block buster" show..... better production.... flashier stuff.... cornier stories....

Ahhh.... back in the day.... A brunette Buffy with highlights.... a skinny and FIT Angel..... a straight Willow..... a goofy but not over the top goofy Xander..... Cordelia..... highschool..... no one except Buffy had the superpowers..... better stories.... and they felt more real like it could be happening somewhere..... ahhh. those were the days............

Dodort says:
(Tue May 1 20:30:38 2001 205.188.200.172): Spoilers
5
4
3
2
1
Great Hearbreaking episode of Buffy. It was nice that they threw in some really cool moments to give the viewer a break. My favorite being Giles quick tourturing of the minion.
5
4
3
2
1
Spoilers

agslayer says:
(Tue May 1 20:29:47 2001 64.12.101.151): oy vey.

Willowhead says:
(Tue May 1 20:29:18 2001 209.187.60.86): *waves* to Hollyn, singsinthecar � Hey! How are you?

James WON!!!! YAY!!!!! The sore hand is worth it�

Topicage�

xandman - I read the transcripts for the first season eps before buying the boxset�still haven�t seen the others. It is an entirely different experience, but I
have to say I liked watching the show better. It gained a lot in nuance, esp. in terms of
how the actors looked at each other, etc.

singsinthecar -
SPOILERS FOR TOUGH LOVE
1
2
3
4
5
Yeah, I�m quite worried about Willow�I don�t think she can do all that stuff and go back to normal. Tara was right � her power is frightening. It�s so advanced, and to a degree without ethics�very scary.
All you did was put your hand in your mouth? My Joss�.i went out on the terrace and bawled for a while. That was a hard, hard, ep to watch.
5
4
3
2
1
SPOILERS FOR TOUGH LOVE

off to cry some more. And possibly study for chem. (groan)

Chocolate, tissues and {{{huggles}}} to all who need them

*poof*

Willowhead
Co-Founder and Member #2 of BFAGFFA - Malta Zanew
James Martsters is a Hottie #29
Honorary Sarah - Sarahead
Keeper of Willow's Amazon Strength
Keeper of Willow's need to recopy and color code her notes
Member of the Dragon Cove Magic Shop
Dirty Socks, Geo, Hollyn, Isis, laffin, Leanne, Morella, Perchewit, singsinthecar, Seska (the W-I-T) speare, TB, the Invisible Girl, Vaal, Zygy
Special VIP SO of the night to Amber Benson who made me cry for half an hour straight. As always, Amber, your performance made the night. Thank you for your wonderfulness!
"ok..ten more minutes of chanting and then you guys have to go to bed." - buffy

"400 years and still not enough" - Darla

"We can love quite well, if not wisely" - Drusilla

"Not the muppet, dumbass" - Cordelia

Darla: But we...
Angel: Yeah.
Darla: And you...
Angel: I know.
Darla: Then I...
Angel: Three times.
Darla: You're not evil. I-I don't understand. - Was I... Was it... not good? Well, I don't accept that. You can not tell me that wasn't perfect. Not only have I been around for four hundred years, but I used to do this professionally. And *that* was perfect. (beat) We'll go again.

Sparky2001 says:
(Tue May 1 20:27:41 2001 206.168.123.181): Is Buffy moving to a different network next year? UPN?

paksenarrion says:
(Tue May 1 20:27:38 2001 209.4.94.5): *sigh* Out comes the Tag-o-Vac^tm Again. Paks sucks up that loose tag.

PooF

Paks

Countess Karnstein says:
(Tue May 1 20:25:49 2001 142.176.115.165): Buffster - That doesn't mean, though, that he'll make it to the special "People" magazine issue, does it? Could be just another useless poll.

Clattering - Agree that Angel has been too soft lately - almost goofy. But, even at his worst, he's been a badder ass vampire this season than Spike!! Who ever would have guessed? ;-(

silverwolf says:
(Tue May 1 20:25:10 2001 24.10.100.64): if Sarahs carl is here-my previous comment to you is illustrated delighfully by whitney stafford on the previous board heh heh.

Arielle says:
(Tue May 1 20:25:09 2001 209.214.124.155): *poofing*

Mia
You little devil! Okay that's fine...just fine. I'll just...uh...call Andy back and tell him you aren't interested in that weekend getaway to Jamaica after all *g*

wiccachick
My dearest leather clad goddess, it was great to see you! E me sometime, k? I miss my chicklet!

*poof*

This way to Slayer's Realm

Perrin GoldenEyes says:
(Tue May 1 20:25:06 2001 209.240.220.207): Oops. How could i forget Amber Benson! She was AMAZING! I like her more and more every episode. Way to go Amber! Keep up the great work!

"She's my everything.." Willow to the Doctor

paksenarrion says:
(Tue May 1 20:24:59 2001 209.4.94.5): Paks scoops up Djoser and gives him an extra hug. She settles in to read Winnie the Pooh to them>

Dirty Socks {{Hugs}} Thanks anyway.. maybe I should move *g*.

*sigh* going to bed, as I have to work tommorrow to make up for skipping today {{waves}} Good night all

Paks gives little Nomar, Pedro, Ck, and Djoser one last hug and sends them scampering back to Thoin

Thoin They are ready for bed-I think I almost read them to sleep.

SO's go out to Ergoshakes, Lyndsay, Tiggy, Sir Chris, Miciaih, Kronos, Cushy, Janni and the rest of the Krazed Kaneis, Thoin (keeper of the Fifths), the RedHood, Lisa_H, Yummy, Wolfguard, Cleio, Christopher Marlowe, Cairo and anyone else I missed.

Paks

InsaneforKane#21
BBBGH#217
James Marsters is a Hottie#23
Sir Chris is a Hottie #5
DeKnight's Riders #48
Joss is a Hottie #52

member of Procrastinators anonymus...well I'll join tommorrow
I am the Patron Saint of Lost Causes
The truth is out there
Arachanphobia-not just a movie
Tagdropper extraordinaire
Ladies and gentlemen take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice-Dr. Sidney Freedman
The next Star Wars..less Wookie, more nookie...Jay Leno
The heart chooses as it will and time is NOT a factor...Thoin

sparky2001 says:
(Tue May 1 20:24:32 2001 206.168.123.181): test

Yummy says:
(Tue May 1 20:24:16 2001 216.209.226.86): Paks
Well, I'm outta here. See ya!

singsinthecar
hihi! And bye! *g* I've been so
bad! I was trying to avoid all
spoilers for tonight's ep, and
then I went to the Amber board,
ans someone weevil posted an
entire summary for "Tough Love",
and I couldn't resist anymore!
Damn! I get the feeling I won't
be eating much for dinner
tomorrow night... (I get my Buffy
at 5pm. Dumbasses...)

Well, I'm gone!

*POOF*

-----------------
-----------------
-----------------
-------

tvsurfer says:
(Tue May 1 20:23:28 2001 209.240.220.143): Given all the tara and willow bashing people seem to feel they can throw around tonight I just want to say that

Amber and Aly are awesome actresses with great chemistry when on screen together

they make tara and willow just the best couple ever and the remarkable performances they give are the reason why I watch this show. They are amazing and I hope we will have them to entertain us for a long long time

thanks Amber and Aly
your the best !

agslayer says:
(Tue May 1 20:23:11 2001 64.12.101.151): THE MOST ANNOYING QUESTIONS ANYONE COULD ASK:

1. Is Buffy coming back next year?

2. Is Buffy moving to UPN?

3. Is Sarah returning to Buffy next year when the show goes to UPN?

Answers.
1. yes 2. yes 3. yes

faking my way says:
(Tue May 1 20:22:38 2001 24.23.155.225): Off to bed I go with Bedtime Xander. Night all.

Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:22:28 2001 207.112.166.33): Penlind, that's just normal for this place. It blows up into nonsense occassionally (I don't usually get involved, but sometimes I just gotta be silly) and then we settle down and become our normal, intelligent selves again (well, except for me, of course). It's what makes this place special. Not even bouts of anger can kill us! We are "stake-proof" in that respect.

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 20:20:39 2001 209.240.220.240): And now I can't spell. I would correct them but fear I will just make it worse. Decipher away.

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 20:19:58 2001 209.182.160.244): Okay, an experiment... we had minimal bezoarage last nite during the brainiac board, so... reaching into his tattered Burberry, slayerdaddy pulls out the first volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica, lays it on the bar, opens it, and begins to read: "Aardvark�"

as slayerdaddy continues to read in the background, he steps out of his board persona to announce:

penlind: Expect re-e shortly for yourself and Cairo...

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 20:19:36 2001 209.240.220.240): You are all being much too kind. I have decided to formally renounce my mother's liscense just as soon as we get through the next few days. In the meantime, on to more upbeat topics like the jungle in here! finally went back and read some of the posts...lot of anger roaring through the Bronze. Nice to see it settling down.

baileys18 says:
(Tue May 1 20:18:25 2001 207.148.137.200): is it true that this is the final season of Buffy???

Clattering says:
(Tue May 1 20:18:20 2001 24.4.252.201): 'Lo all,

Enjoyed some lighter moments tonight....but....

SPOILY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
***
*
*
*
*
*
*
Bothers me on Angel that they are making him all soft and mushy. Almost makes me long for Angelus, or at least the Angel that burnt up Darla and Dru. Love the Host however...(he of that other name they kept saying so fast I couldn't catch it)

Other than that....

Loved Buffy being the sane one for a change and Willow going off the deep end and putting others in danger...(and herself) All those times she would counsel Buffy not to do something rash....and Buffy would due to Angel, or someone else she loved....and now Willow goes and does it. Finally!

Other than that.....pretty heavy and sad...still loving Spike. He is almost enough to make me forget Angel...(but not quite...LOL)

*
*
*
*
*
SPOILERS ABOVE

clatter

*big smooch to Blackheart Bro for taping next week for me...I will sing a dirge in the Highlands for you sweetie!

Aelith says:
(Tue May 1 20:18:16 2001 63.14.111.126): hello board.

singsinthecar says:
(Tue May 1 20:17:28 2001 172.138.96.13): Hey Bronzers!

Hi wolfguard, slayerdaddy, Dirty Socks (who just poofed!), Penlind, and Yummy!

SPOILERS FOR TOUGH LOVE
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Willowhead: I just finished watching "Tough Love" and I completely agree with you about Tara and Willow. I was freaking out when Glory was torturing Tara; I couldn't decide if I wanted to scream or cry, so I put my hand in my mouth instead. In fact, my hand stayed pretty close to my face during the second half of the episode. While I was thinking, "Wow, Willow's powerful," now I'm wondering if something in her will be different because she dabbled in dark magic.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
END SPOILERS FOR TOUGH LOVE

singsinthecar

Hollyn says:
(Tue May 1 20:17:23 2001 63.104.138.150): oops.

VaBuffyFan says:
(Tue May 1 20:17:15 2001 172.146.173.153): Since I sent out an SO list about a zillion hours ago, I'll just say....hey. :-)

Loved "Tough Love." Kudos to Joss and the cast. :-)

VBF

Perrin GoldenEyes says:
(Tue May 1 20:16:40 2001 209.240.220.207): On the Angel front. I loved this episode also (OK i would have loved it no matter what with Charisma Carpenter in a bikini...)

But we get to see more about Gunn and the reprecutions of him working with Angel,Wesley, and Cordelia. And we find out a little bit more about the Host (a.k.a "Lorne")

Also, did i mention Charisma Carpenter in a bikini?? I hope my VCR doesn't break from me using the pause button too much...

Hollyn says:
(Tue May 1 20:16:39 2001 63.104.138.150): RSOs to ShyGirl, dualslayers, OzLady, Willowhead, Jaan Quidam, greeneyes, VBF

Happy Birthday
Bailey Chase
Julie Benz
kugelmass
Mabb

Mabb: No problems, Little Willow helped me through it, so I hope that it got there safely. :)

SPOILERS Tough Love & Belonging

Lady Wolfsbane: Sorry, I'm going to have to agree with my Mom on this one, since it bothered both of us. *g* Dawn knew how Glory's victims would eventually respond to her - that there was no concern or prediction of that response was the inconsistency and whether Glory showed up or not. Glory wasn't there the other times, so she really didn't need to be there this time. Just the knowledge that Tara, in her current state, could give Dawn away should have been a priority on at least one of their lists.

And for the review. . .

Willow's still heading on that path to the dark side. Tsk, tsk. Next year's big bad being a former Scooby - now that would lead to an interesting season. *g* Cute line from Anya - always trying to be helpful. Nice interaction between Spike and Dawn. They seem to bring out the honesty in each other very well. The obvious problem mentioned above was the only drawback. Curious that there was also no "little miss muffet" reference in Tara's babble.

Angel ever-so-cute in his big brother role again this week. David and Charisma really bring out the best in each other. Some nice family (real and extended) tie ins for those we knew little about. As has been mention, woo-hoo with the SW alusions. Definitely a different and unexpected route that the show has suddently taken. :)

SPOILERS above

Dirty Socks says:
(Tue May 1 20:16:07 2001 24.226.0.225): POOF-ing now. My head and eye are in loads of pain. Seems that "Angel" dulled the pain for a bit. Good TV...

I said it before, I'll say it again. Andy Hallett is my GOD! :) Night all!

+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
Dirty Socks(ificus)
Keeper of Lindsey�s bracelet as seen in �Dead End�
God of the Laundry Dimension
It's a crummy place, but someone's gotta be God of it. :)
Hallett is a Hottie
Andy Hallett's Birthday Extravaganza!
Dirty Socks, Mia and DeAn: The Three Hallettors
andy=*thud* *thud* *thud*
CHARLIEEE! ~Lyndsay, "Dead End"

Big SO�s to all in the Bronze - that way I don�t miss anybody. :)

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 20:15:28 2001 12.77.80.90): Penlind - I second what Thoin said. Also, Simon is old enough to help when his family needs him. Where is he from? In family crises, like Djo being sick, everyone pitches in. Maybe Simon could come on and say hi every once in a while. Or is the Bronze reserved for Cairo, as her special place?

StG

Brandy says:
(Tue May 1 20:14:14 2001 63.172.254.72): Hey. I haven't read up on my Buffy news lately. Could someone inform me if Buffy is going to move to a different network or if it's off the air completely? Thanks a bunch.

Narrator says:
(Tue May 1 20:13:54 2001 66.72.117.36): Penlind -- Goober. From what I've seen of Cairo and heard of about Simon and your other kids, you are a terrific mother. Where is it written that you are supposed to be a superwoman? You have a lot going on. Parenting is tough enough in the best of times, but you have a really ill little one. And a very inquisitive 10 year old. Simon understands that. We understand that. I hope you do too. {{hugs}}

Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:13:29 2001 207.112.166.33): Thoin blinks at Paks in astonishment...as does little Djoser, who got left behind inexplicably...

Paks, he's a Fifth. After a week or so, they're old enough to come visit. Don't leave the little guy behind! Thoin sets little Djoser down, and the little Fifth scampers over to join the others and hear the stories...

sclifton says:
(Tue May 1 20:13:21 2001 65.27.221.189): I need someone to tell me what happened on tonights episode . Buffy is changing stations where I live and I missed it and won't be able to see the rerun

Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:11:38 2001 207.112.166.33): Penlind, and sometimes it's a good thing to let kids, even 13 year olds, take on some responsibilities, even a few that are beyond their abilities. If we don't extend our reach once in awhile, how do we learn how to reach a goal?

paksenarrion says:
(Tue May 1 20:10:55 2001 209.4.94.5): Dirty Socks You have e :)

Yummy Thanks very much-and you are quite welcome.

Thoin May I visit with my little fiths for a while? I promise..no chocolate. Thanks

Paks takes little Nomar, Pedro, and CK off into the corner for a cuddle and a bit of a read. She reminds them to keep an eye on little Djoser as he needs lots of extra loving

Paks

Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:09:42 2001 207.112.166.33): Penlind, you can't be everywhere. And if you DON'T take some time for yourself, to recharge your batteries, you'll be a much worse mother, whether you're present or not. So stop beating yourself up. Cairo is tough. And inquisitive. She'll ask if she doesn't understand. And we'll explain. She's probably safer here than anywhere else. We just have to agree as a group to watch out for her. And YOU have to go easier on yourself! You are NOT a bad parent.

Mia says:
(Tue May 1 20:08:52 2001 152.163.201.182): Arielle You wanted Eliza?? Oh darn...gets Seth Green out of the box.. don't you worry, your presents are just fine! *weg*

Penlind He is in my prayers.....Hopes are good things to hold onto! BTE...you are not a bad Mom, your parenting is supurb...you are Golden!

Dirty Socks Hmmm Lorne...wonder where you got THAT from...LMAO

~Mia

Does "The Host" make you go ga ga? Does his Garden Hue, and his pure comedic brilliance make you LOL?
If you answered yes to any of those questions join the club that understands.

THE GIRLS WHO LOVE THE HOST

We are 68 members strong already...who will be next??

Email Mia at the above addy or go to The Heart of The Host and click on the GLTH link!!!!

ANDY HALLETTS BIRTHDAY EXTRAVAGANZA!!!!

Willowhead says:
(Tue May 1 20:08:28 2001 209.187.60.86): Oh my. *sob* I need huggles and Kleenex�.

SPOILERS FOR TOUGH LOVE
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Well that just brought up deep seated everything�
Tara�oh my. *sob* That was heartbreaking.
Willow�what are you doing!!!! What is she doing?!!! There is no good in the dark side (Well, duh, but�.gah!) Why�what�how�no! This is bad�evil always want something back..no way she can just use that kind of power and get off scot-free.
Buffy�.still the queen of cold, huh? She seemed scared about Dawn though, I guess that�s a good, at least in the sense of us getting away from the ice queen persona.
Spike�may I just say, I love Spike. I want to marry spike and be mother to his vampire spawn�or something. The whole, �I�d do it for someone I love� with the bruises, and the looking at Buffy. That was just an incredible moment.
And goodness�oh goodness. Just a general oh goodnessness. I�m kinda nonverbal know, but wow. That one hurt. Joss, you�re evil!!!!!!
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SPOILERS FOR TOUGH LOVE

SPOILERS FOR BELONGING
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Ok, not loving the alternate dimensions concept. What are they doing with this? I know we�re supposed to trust in Joss, but really.Alternate dimensions? Not cool.
Otherwise�rofl at Angel tonight��here kitty, kitty� *G* that was hilarious.
Lorne whatever of the DeathWok clan? Someone�s been visiting my local Chinese place�deathwok indeed.
Loved, loved, loved the host. He�s a scene stealer, that Andy Hallet.
Gunn� I�m worried about Gunn.
And did anyone else just wanna punch Wesley�s dad square across the face?
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SPOILERS FOR BELONGING

Buffster says:
(Tue May 1 20:08:14 2001 62.100.14.62): Why isn't everybody going: Wohoo?? James Marsters won the poll at people.com!! Come on people!! Wohoo for James!!

wolfguard says:
(Tue May 1 20:06:53 2001 209.193.234.4): xandman,

On you topic. Radio Buffy. I've not experienced BtVS in this fashion, but have The X-Files. I become lost in the musical chases, you know, when Boris is chasing Bullwinkle with a tuba. Anyway, the scenes with action, but no dialogue.

Other than tonight's episode, I have not seen Teacher's Pet, but have read Alexander's transcript. I have certain images that would likely be different than the shot images.

WG

slayerdaddy says:
(Tue May 1 20:06:49 2001 209.182.160.244): slayerdaddy lunges into the Bronze, tattered Burberry flapping...

I missed the teaser! Sassafrassabrowsingcustomersrassafrassa...

StGermain says:
(Tue May 1 20:06:49 2001 12.77.80.90): Taltos - Actually, as I recall, Charisma Carpenter has a scar there. She was impaled in real life, too.

StG

Dirty Socks says:
(Tue May 1 20:06:36 2001 24.226.0.224): Thoin This bundle of joy will be named Lorne. :) That makes two - he and Emma Madison.

Dirty Socks

Perrin GoldenEyes says:
(Tue May 1 20:05:26 2001 209.240.220.207): What a great ep tonight! Everyone was fantastic in this episode. Especially Allyson Hannigan now let's hope Joss keeps letting Willow kick some a$$!

"I Owe You PAIN" - Willow to Glory

Penlind says:
(Tue May 1 20:05:21 2001 209.240.220.240): StG...You would say that, but I have got to snap out of whatever is making me thick these days. I shouldn't be letting her anywhere near it without an adult. And Simon...he volunteered tonight and apologized (a 13 year old kid who should be dreaming of adventure and airplanes felt he had to apologize to his mother) for not watching out for her. That's not his job. I actually curled up for about four hours (that's where I've been). All refreshed, and ready for the big day.

Janni, It is posted above, but have to warn you we will all be gone for the next couple of days. Tell Lauren for us that Cai will answer, probably, by Saturday, if that's works for you?

Susie says:
(Tue May 1 20:04:29 2001 209.179.148.200): .

Lady Wolfsbane says:
(Tue May 1 20:04:01 2001 216.209.106.151): At least I didn't do it *g*

*poof*

Yummy says:
(Tue May 1 20:03:40 2001 216.209.226.86): Paks
Um, there's a post on the
previous board with your name on
it *g*

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Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:03:35 2001 207.112.166.33): Dirty Socks, niecelet! Well, at least it fell into good hands. And what will you name THIS little one? How many do you have now, by the way?

Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:02:35 2001 207.112.166.33): Fifth!!!

Wolfie says:
(Tue May 1 20:02:16 2001 216.209.106.151): fifth?

Dirty Socks says:
(Tue May 1 20:02:05 2001 24.226.0.224): paks I gather you live in Burlington? Ontario? If so, drop me an E. :)

Dirty Socks

amberlynne's foot says:
(Tue May 1 20:01:52 2001 24.219.170.67): ...kicks her inbox and tries to get her email to fall out...

paksenarrion says:
(Tue May 1 20:01:42 2001 209.4.94.5): Paks gets out her super duper Tag-o-Vac^tm and sucks up that loose itlaics tag. "Thank Joss it wasn'tbold

Penlind {{Healing Hugs for Djoser. And no-one who is raising such a wonderful child as Cairo could be a bad parent. {{Hugs}} for you too. I will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

Paks

Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:01:21 2001 207.112.166.33): Not first! FIFTH!!!

Thoin says:
(Tue May 1 20:00:44 2001 207.112.166.33): Ah...new board...MY board...my...

Fifth???